Agents’ Mutual v Gascoigne Halman case: Agent hints it may appeal

The ramifications of the case between Gascoigne Halman and Agents’ Mutual look set to continue.

There is the possibility of an appeal by the Connells-owned agent, while Agents’ Mutual said yesterday evening it will go after costs, and Zoopla took a swipe at the ‘one other portal’ rule operated by Agents’ Mutual portal OnTheMarket.

There is also little doubt as to just how bruised OnTheMarket feels, with chief executive Ian Springett yesterday evening telling member agents in an email:  “The proceedings before the Tribunal have been running since July last year with the Trial completing in February. The manner in which our opponents conducted the case has caused us to divert considerable resources and management time, as was presumably intended by those who funded it, including Zoopla.” (See footnote)

The case – which resulted in a ruling in favour of Agents’ Mutual yesterday afternoon – revolved around Agents’ Mutual alleging breach of contract by Gascoigne Halman, which operates 18 offices in the south Manchester and Cheshire region.

As an independent, it had agreed to subscribe to Agents’ Mutual’s portal, OnTheMarket. It was subsequently acquired by Connells Group.

Gascoigne Halman denied the breach of contract, and claimed that OTM breached various provisions in the Competition Act 1998 – including OTM’s ‘one other portal’ rule.

Yesterday, however, the Competition Appeal Tribunal rejected Gascoigne Halman’s arguments, saying that the rule was in fact part of arrangements which were pro-competitive –  in EYE’s understanding, the arrangements allowed a challenger portal to enter a market dominated by Rightmove and Zoopla, where other challenger portals had repeatedly failed.

A spokesperson for Connells Group yesterday evening said: “Gascoigne Halman is surprised and disappointed by today’s Competition Appeal Tribunal judgement. We are considering our position and will consequently not be making any further comment at this stage.”

A spokesperson for Zoopla said: “This outcome doesn’t change anything as far as we’re concerned.

“We welcome competition based on innovation and performance but firmly believe that OTM’s ‘one other portal’ rule is not in the interests of either agents or consumers.

“OTM has failed to gain traction precisely because they don’t allow agents a free choice in their own marketing decisions and limit consumer choice and exposure. We will continue to win back disillusioned agents who are not getting the performance and value they deserve from OTM.

“It is pretty amazing that OTM’s existence is dependent on restricting and suing their customers.

“We think it is high time that OTM let their agents freely choose where and how to market their clients’ properties and look forward to competing on a level playing field when they drop this rule.”

Paul Smith, CEO of Spicerhaart and an OTM member company, said: “This judgment draws a line under this protracted matter and allows Agents Mutual, and its member agencies, to move forward together.

“Indeed, the judgment confirmed that rather than being anti-competitive, Agents Mutual has had the opposite effect, providing crucial competition to the major portals.

“This case underlines the need for all proper estate agencies, irrespective of size, to join force in further developing OnTheMarket as a leading portal which works for them and retains the value of listings and fees within the industry.”

City analysts at bank Jefferies – an adviser to Zoopla – said it was surprised by the decision.

It said the ruling had not changed its opinion of Zoopla, which “remains the highest conviction ‘buy’ of the stocks under our coverage”.

Anthony Codling of Jefferies said his take on the ruling was the the ‘one other portal’ rule was judged to be not anti-competitive because the “OTM proposition was too weak to succeed without such support”.

He said that Rightmove and Zoopla would both be sharpening their pencils to ensure they are chosen at the ‘one other portal’.

Another City analyst William Packer, of BNPExaneParibas, said: “The Agents’ Mutual court case decision has been announced in a dense 167-page document.

“Based on our reading of the document and conversations with industry contacts we understand that Agents Mutual has won on all major counts vs Gascoigne Halman.

“The judge stated the rule ‘was objectively necessary and pro-competitive’. In summary, Agents Mutual’s ‘one other portal rule’ rule remains intact and Agents Mutual’s five-year contract remains valid. We note that the decision could be appealed.”

He continued: “Overall we view today’s news as negative for ZPG and neutral for Rightmove.

“Agents Mutual has been on the back foot for the last 12 months as the court case occupied management time and restricted financial resources for marketing – we believe AM lost a small portion of their agency base in this period, (although AM has not commented on losses).

“We expect the decision to herald a renewed marketing push from Agents Mutual and solidify its membership base.”

Packer forecast growth at Zoopla, but said: “This could prove more challenging in the context of a stronger Agents Mutual.

“We forecast property portal ARPA [advertising revenue per advertiser] growth at 5% next year which could also prove more challenging.

“Additionally the win of the court case also reduces the upside risk of a rapid return of members to ZPG which an Agents Mutual court case loss could have catalysed.

“We note however that ZPG’s business model has materially changed since 2015 through mergers and acquisitions.”

Packer said that the news was broadly neutral for Rightmove, and that he continued to rate Rightmove as ‘outperform’.

<http://www.catribunal.org.uk/files/1262_Agents_Mutual_Judgment_CAT_15_050717.pdf>

 

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62 Comments

  1. AgencyInsider

    “This outcome doesn’t change anything as far as we’re concerned” says Zoopla

    Might want to ponder the wonderful words of the late Lord Denning: ‘Be you ever so high, the law is above you’

    Whether Zoopla like it or not; acknowledge it or not; deny it or not, the ruling has vindicated AM in its strategy to oust Zoopla from the No2 slot before then going after RM – and it has specifically stated that the tactics are not anti-competitive.

     

     

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    1. markpne

      All us agents on the market should put in extra £100pm take the other portals on proper 

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      1. AgentV

        If OTM has ?7,000 agents paying ?£250 per month each thats £1,750,000 per month. Where is all that currently going?
        Could OTM not fund a marketing campaign, equivalent in size to that of PB, extolling the virtues of Full Service Agents and where to find them and their properties?

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    2. Bless You

      I am not sure why onthemarket didnt expel them when they were taken over by connells??   
      Corporates arent allowed on….this is also why onthemarket will fail,,but thats another story. 

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      1. Bless You

        Best thing agents can do is kil zoopla and onthemarket and all go on rightmove…maybe the monopoly commission can get the fees reduced then.  

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      2. smile please

        Think you need to check the facts.
         
        Corporates are welcome, they just do not get the terms they get with  Z & RM.
         
        I and many others would welcome the corporates.

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        1. Woodentop

          Corporates are welcome, they just do not get the terms they get with  Z & RM. which is illegal.

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          1. Bless You

            onthemarket need to stop trying to control the market and get on with increasing customers…the playing  field has changed since they launched.
            2015 : problem was rightmove fees and trying to squeeze out corporates. ( for some reason that i cant see)
            2017: purplebricks are now being protected by rightmove and we keep funding this toxic future.
            Solution:  You have to be No Sale No Fee to go on onthemarket..
            I have no problem with purplebricks taking business..the problem i have is the custoemr is forced to stay with them becuase they PAY ANYWAY… we cant fix or help the customer once they have been sold by the TV propaganda, that is no commssion…

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            1. PeeBee

              “…we cant fix or help the customer once they have been sold by the TV propaganda, that is no commssion…”
              I think smile please would debate that with you quite strongly – he posted only last week that he had relieved two unfortunate vendors of their #Purple_Pain and was marketing their properties now.

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              1. smile please

                Did indeed (added another since).
                 
                Sadly, we are not being called out at original point of instruction, so some truth from Bless You that the public are falling hook, line and sinker for the claims and not bothering with even having other agents out (well not us at least!) 
                 
                 

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              2. Bless You

                hi pee be, i prefer to talk as an industry  not from a few urban myths..they are winning and these unfocused comments dont help create a plan to beat them.  

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          2. 1stTimeBuyer

            Illigal, ah your a lawyer then?  And you pay the say monthly rate for your mobile connection than everyone else then right?  Good grief!

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            1. Woodentop

              It is claimed that the reason some won’t join OTM is that they will not be given a discouint that they enjoy from RM. If this is the case, there is a case under competitions act of a cartel operating to the disadvantage of the other agents. Ask Trevor.

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  2. smile please

    They may well appeal but the report says it all.

     

    It will be a case of going through the motions and the lawyers managing to rack up further billable hours.

     

    If they had any dignity they would settle out of court now. However one thing is clear, Connells and Zoopla have very little dignity and will continue to draw this out.

     

    If you are a member of Z look at how they do business, look into where your data goes, look into all the third party software systems they now own. Ask yourself, “Is this really a company i want to be associated with and pay my hard earned money to?”

     

    Personally unless i have no other choice i only do business with individuals and companies i like. You do not need Zoopla, there are plenty of alternatives to DPG on their range of products.

     

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    1. NewsBoy

      I really like the Zoopla people and feel sorry that this will be the start of their sure but steady decline. At last the U.K is following in the footsteps of our American cousins and moving towards an industry owned portal.

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      1. chriswoodsthethird92

        Not true, we don’t have the ability to unite. 
        This portal industry will forever be ranked RM, Z and then OTM. 

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        1. Robert May

           I don’t think that’s correct; Rightmove has  the  legacy of massive revenues and profits; they can’t and won’t innovate because of it. They have a fear of changing the formula that delivers a handsome dividend to its investors. Fear of  change and complacency can lead to a failure to evolve.
          Zoopla have bound themselves with the legacy of a stack of  old software products for agents who operate differently from each other.   The jupix users are different to the  solex users so combining those end user differences into a single product will ultimately lead to failure. The BIG data objectives of ZPG are at odds with the small data requirements of  their agents.
          OTM is best placed to offer  change and innovation. With nothing to lose they can clean sheet their operation and model far  more easily than their competitors.

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          1. 1stTimeBuyer

            OTM have a basic site, and a small budget and have shown no innovation whatsoever.

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            1. Robert May

              Yet! this was a vexatious distraction that has deliberately and knowingly swallowed 20% of the intial project timescale. An appeal will eat more time.That sort of thing  destroys some people but motivates others.  I have endured 12 months of issues with a denial of service attack.  We have dug deeper than we ordinarily  have needed to and now have our adversaries beaten. Ian Springett is in the same place, as are the agents of Agents Mutual. They are coming for you!

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              1. cyberduck46

                >Anthony Codling of Jefferies said his take on the ruling was the the ‘one other portal’ rule was judged to be not anti-competitive because the “OTM proposition was too weak to succeed without such support”.
                 
                Robert,
                 
                Isn’t this the person at Jefferies who you are helping?
                 
                Adviser to Zoopla. Countrywide Broker too if I’m not mistaken?
                 
                Complicated game isn’t it?
                 

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                1. Robert May

                   Yes it is, apparently he uses 240 volt electricity to power a computer, has a mobile phone and drives on the left hand side of the road, all things he has in common with me.
                  I am not sure what you are trying to get at but would suggest you write to Bacofoil to see if you can land sponsorship deal for your hat.
                  It might benefit your time, sanity and credibility to observe that Mr Codling and I have expressed opposing views on this subject.

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                  1. cyberduck46

                    >I am not sure what you are trying to get at
                     
                    Things may not work out as you hope.
                     
                     

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                    1. Robert May

                      Funny!
                       

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    2. Chris Wood

      What IS interesting regarding Zoopla/ ZPG group is that, contrary to their stated marketing material http://jupix.com/software/software-features/ they appear to be refusing to offer a live feed to other service suppliers. Apart from contractual and misleading advertising issues this, in itself, might be construed as an abuse of a dominant market position.

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      1. Robert May

        According to CMA ruling on the aquisition of Websky, ZPG owning CFP, Core, Vebra, Alto, Jupix and now Expert Agent  (estimate 70%  of all  the agency CRM  property data systems) isn’t a dominant position.  So refusing your request for the same realtime feed they use to supply the portal dominant  incumbent (Rightmove) isn’t an abuse of  dominant market position.
        I have to say that is a bit odd!
        Isn’t it strange how market leading, No1 provider etc is OK for marketing collateral  but when it comes to legislation  all of a sudden they are not as dominant as their  marketing claims.
        Competition rules are great as long as they control the competition but not if they control us?

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  3. chriswoodsthethird92

    UK estate agents are moronic.

    You constantly beat yourselves out of a living…

    The original idea was to shunt RM out of the market in favour of OTM and Z (who were the cheaper option).

    Z is far more useable on a day to day basis, but your insecurities wouldn’t allow you to drop RM for fear of handing a (very short term) competitive advantage to your competitors.

    Now Z are being vilified, all whilst RM are increasing revenue off the back of all this.

    Rghtly or wrongly OTM gave it a good shot, but it’s over (you just don’t know it yet).

    Congratulations. You all must be very proud of yourselves.

     

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    1. Bless You

      Yes!!!!!!   And while you support zoopla and rightmove allowing PAY ANYWAY AGENTS on ,,we are all doomed…onthemarket is our only chance but noone at head office seems to care that nobody in UK knows who they are.
      Even if they did the customer will go where the property is..
      Does anyone remember how Rightmove got going??  They let the corporates on first….this is why i wouldnt go on it for 10 years…. but hey,,what do i know. 

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  4. acorn136

    Champagne corks popping etc etc etc, what a joke this whole subject is

    – Agents clearly cannot work together in this country; I am gobsmacked OTM has got so far

    – Springett clearly wants to destroy Zoopla, only he knows the real reason why but his reference to Zoopla’s apparent involvement implies this. Has anyone got any actual proof they have helped finance the court case? What have they done that has upset agents more than Rightmove price increases?

    – This is not ‘the end of Zoopla’ they are worth over a billion pounds and have already changed their approach. If you do not want them to have your data, simple do not give it them. In fact Zoopla was the one credible threat to Rightmove but thanks to this Rightmove’s position has become even stronger; well done estate agency world!

    – Is OTM actually working? Not one OTM rep has told me how many leads they have generated for their members so I set a challenge to all OTM supporters on here and those who have provided a testimonial to them….

    PUBLISH YOUR STATS! Not numbers but screengrabs from your OTM reporting tool (if there is one)

    I suspect not one person on here will have the guts to do this.

    I urge the industry to stop with the rumours and present the facts and proof

     

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      1. acorn136

        Errrrr ‘Offered to pay’, where is the proof they did pay?

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        1. Beam Splitter

          It doesn’t matter if they paid or not, the fact they offered to do so shows their stance and intent.

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        2. Robert May

           A service supplier with  dual and sometimes conflicting obligations to a single client base would be wise to stay out of  a fight rather than taking sides, getting caught taking sides and  then offering to use  some revenue received from customers to pay for litigation against those customers.

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  5. Paul House

    Well done to agents mutual/OnTheMarket. 

    It will be interesting to see what happens next.

    Only a sizemic balls up could prevent OTM making huge strides forward now I think.

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    1. FromTheHip64

      Then prepare for a sizemic ballup, cos that’s what they’ve been doing since they started.

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  6. cyberduck46

    Could possibly end up in the Supreme Court this one. First an Appeal to the Appeals Court.

     

    Very complicated decisions. Different Judges can easily come to different decisions.

     

    One of the reasons for encouraging competition is that it’s supposed to benefit the consumer. One of the factors to consider when granting appeals is the public interest.

     

    I can remember when Sky held the rights to all Football matches and they added an optional package of 50 games for £50. The courts ruled that Sky shouldn’t have the monopoly and BT came onto the scene. Now you have Sky & BT in a bidding war for the footy and the extra cost ends up on the consumers plate.

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  7. Woodentop

    I shall repeat myself again as it is clear that some have their heads in a bucket.

     

    RM. Z, OTM or any other portal are basically the same to the end user. The public don’t give a stuff which one they search as long as it has the property they want. They would like a one stop shop but go to the one the locals agents are promoting and advertising on. RM are number 1 only because they started first over a decade ago and was really the only option provided to agents. Z came along later and was a joke for a long time, very little support and even poorer marketing. It was only when OTM came along did Z wake up to the threat and spend mega amount on branding, marketing etc so much so they tried to help OTM go under and FAILED. OTM offers agents a web portal where they are not held to ransom and a fair amount of protection for their industry, while the other two offer no assurance’s and in RM case a big financial drain. If agents were to stop using any portal and move to another and promote that portal as they do with the likes of current status quo, the public would just follow. THEY are not bothered, the only ones that are the other portals and agents who can’t see the light! Since when does a business (high street agent) promote another company that threatens to put them out of business …. are you mad? OTM is still only a couple of years old and taken more than its fair share of flack from what are its competitors and agents who think it was going to be easy and do their job for them. No web portal does your job for you, it is nothing more than an electronic newspaper to show properties, not hinder your operations with false valuations tools, sales history which often have no relevance. Think what the customer wants …. pictures and details of a property to buy, not hit with third party advertising and gimmicks making the process a bind, time consuming and switch off. Advertising should be the KISS principle, the hook for the agent to then reel in the fish, if they haven’t fallen asleep.

     

    There certainly are some very unhappy people today, all convinced it was the end for OTM, oh dear, no cartel, not illegal …. blimey they are still there as a competitor with a better package.

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  8. FromTheHip64

    So far this month we’ve had 39 RM leads.

    So far this month we’ve had 1 OTM lead

    Same properties, same photos, same write up, just two different portals. Not hard to see which brand is the better at marketing.

    Now the case is over OTM need to put every ounce of energy and every spare penny into an intensive, ongoing marketing campaign. I signed up believing that OTM really were focused and determined to challenge RM. I’ve not seen much yet that doesn’t make me feel that I was taken for a bit of a mug by OTM.

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    1. Woodentop

      Why would your customers swich to OTM if you continue to use RM? Think about it.

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    2. PeeBee

      “Not hard to see which brand is the better at marketing.”
      FTH64 – it would be far more accurate – not to mention honest – to state
      “Not hard to see which brand had fifteen years head start.”
      Speaking of which – back in November you posted
      “A huge percentage of our industry are responsible for the failure of OTM. We waited a decade for a company to rise up to knock rightmove of it’s comfy perch and when it comes along we as an industry don’t support it. So many thanks to all  you legions of silent moaners who can’t see the wood for the trees, you’re the reason the guys at rightmove are laughing all the way to the bank.”
      I suggest that in the last two sentences, we now replace the word “you” with the word “we” – seeing as you have revealed yourself as one of the “legions… that can’t see the wood for the trees” you point the finger of blame at.

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      1. 1stTimeBuyer

        “Not hard to see which brand had fifteen years head start.” Err, and this matters to a business and consumers how?  Leads matter to an agent.  Listings and information to a consumer.  AFC Wimbledon vs MK Dons (Wimbledon FC).  Google vs Yahoo?  It’s not all about how long you have been around, it’s what you bring to the party.
        This matters to an agent…..
        So far this month we’ve had 39 RM leads.
        So far this month we’ve had 1 OTM lead

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        1. Woodentop

          I question your understanding of who is who and what is what about agents with RM, Z or OTM if you dismiss the 15 year head start. As I said before the key today is getting the corporates on board who are stuck in their old 15 year ways and some with shareholdings.

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    3. Paul

      RM is a 15 year bsuiness, and has thrown millions at its marketing over that period.  OTM could never compete or begin to penertrate the portal market with the budget it had, hence the reason for the one other rule.

      People bang on about the OOR, but the business just wouldn’t be viable without it.
      Look at how much PB have spent on advertising and it still only has a fraction of the market.  RM success is purely down to the fact we all put our clients properties on there, nothing else.  They don’t offer anything to the public other than all the stock in one place.

      If they dropped it (the rule), some agents still wouldn’t switch, now we have had the ruling, some agents will still not switch, it’s in their mindset.

      This has never been about which portal you are on, it’s been about creating and supporting a portal for the industry in the interests of the industry.  It’s about getting OTM to that no.1 spot and to do that unfortuately the demise of the other portal will be a bi-product.  It may not result in complete armageddon for the others and with Zoopla recognising the need to diverisfy, it actually might be better placed to survive and prosper.

      If OTM fails, we and many other agents won’t be going back to Zoopla, we don’t need to as it hasn’t affected our business.

      We have had a year of uncertainty, money having to be put aside to deal with the court case and OTM is still here, much to the annoyance of the likes of RM and in particular Zoopla.  The business has effectively been put on hold.  It’s a miracle its still going.

      A telling point in the 160 odd pages was the fact that it was said Zoopla had much to lose from the success of OTM, which the judges turned on it’s head by saying in fact by that admission, Zoopla had much to gain by OTM’s failure.  Is it no wonder then that we see the barrage of misinformation, weekly statements and offers of £200,000 to fund the court action from Zoopla.

      If Zoopla know how powerful and dangerous OTM could be, then why are so many agents unable to see it.  If it is what so many of you say it is, then why would a multi million pound business be so interested in this court case and even send in top brass as witnesses!!

      Zoopla should have played a neutral role, it’s not thier fight, but the stakes are too high.   

      As I have said before, I don’t need OTM to succeed, but I would like it to.

      Hopefully we will see some interesting and positive news flowing now that this debarcle of a court case is over and we can all move forward.

      My last point, if there was only one portal and every property in the land was on it, there would still be market leaders, the agents that know how to run a buisness, the ones that know what else it takes to be the best and offer the best service, that portal would never make up for the shortcomings of any buisness, much the same as today, there are plenty of agents that are not market leaders advertising on Rightmove?   There are even some crazy agents out there that don’t advertise on any of them!  

      RM or whoever are not the panacea for making your business a success, you are!
       

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      1. cyberduck46

        >Hopefully we will see some interesting and positive news flowing now that this debarcle of a court case is over and we can all move forward.
         
        But is it over though?
         
        Even if this court case is over because either there is no application from the losing party or the appeal request is rejected then another case can be brought by a different party.
         

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        1. Taff

          Why would a “different party” want to spend thousands bringing a case which somebody else has already lost? 

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          1. cyberduck46

            I haven’t read the decision but the decision will be based on arguments made and evidence given. Another party could argue differently and/or present different evidence. Wheras if there was an appeal this wouldn’t be the case and it would have to be on a point of law.
             
            I think I’m right in saying that OTM don’t allow online companies to list with them. Perhaps an online company would want to challenge this and present a different argument.
             
            These complicated matters where there is a public interest can quite often end up in the higher courts. When it became clear how powerful Google was going to become there were several cases and public interest was always part of the arguments.

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        2. Woodentop

          They would need one very big amount of cash to lodge. No single agent has that revenue and I still suspect that Connells were hoping AM would throw the towel in with fear. Not a hope of winning an appeal and I suspect it wouldnt be allowed unless they have additional information or point of law hadn’t been followed. It’s a dead duck.

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    4. NewsBoy

      It’s not about leads – yet. Of course Wrongmove produces much more as it the only site the public know about and the site where ALL the properties are on.  OTM can only be relevant when it’s number of participating offices gets close to Hoopla. Once that happens it can, at last, become really useful and worthwhile. There is still plenty of time. We need to remain patient to have the chance, at last, to have our own agent owned and run portal as they do in USA

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  9. marcH

    Woodentop, I couldn’t have put it better myself ! What I hope for now is that OTM rallies the troops and moves off the membership plateau where it has been stuck since the distraction of this court case started almost a year ago. But to get itself back into public consciousness via a sustained advertising campaign needs some very serious funding and Springett needs to consider tapping his sources for this now as it will simply take too long to pursue Connells through the courts for costs/compensation. OTM is seen by many of its supporters (and the public) as having hit a wall in terms of growth. It desperately needs to re-gain traction in order to present a credible threat to RM/ZPG.

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    1. Woodentop

      PR is the key, it has a good agents base and needs to grow further. AM should be looking at what their reps really are doing, if anything (some would like us believe nothing)! Corporates are probably one of the keys today and if they can be shown they are going to be left out in the cold … they will join. Corporates are running scared of people like PB. Local agents are possibly the best troops to make that work, as collective they have always done more business than any corporate. One idea is for agents in a locality to collective advertsie in the newspaper, on the side of a bus or even on billboards propmoting OTM and its agents. Collectively it isn’t that expensive and shames the competition without having to mention them. OTM is about marketing and now needs to be impressive. Their first TV campaign was slick, now we need to see a consertive and slicker effort from AM.

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  10. docklander52

    I wouldn’t feel too bad Hip64, we all (I believe) signed up for OTM based on their promise of a brighter future. A future where an agency owned portal would charge everyone the same and provide a genuine alternative to the big 2. A future where the same portal would spend zillions on marketing and make sure all its members played on the same, level playing field.

    Whilst I believe their intentions may have been good, the delivery has been very different to their idealistic approach.

    Why is everyone so hell-bent on “destroying” Z and RM? Do they not work for you? Do they not provide great leads and vals? If not, why be on there in the first place? If Z and RM are not delivering, just ****** leave (subject to your contractural obligations of course, eh PB).

    No one likes paying tax but we all accept it is an absolute requirement. I view Z and RM in the same way. Vendors and landlords would, generally, laugh us out of their property if we told them on vals that we were with OTM.

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    1. Woodentop

      You make good points but may I say that you last sentance is because of who? Certianly RM & Z provide leads and very well established while OTM is still wearing short pants, however as I and many have come to recognise it is your future that is at stake, not just about what lead volume you get today.

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      1. Paul

        “No one likes paying tax but we all accept it is an absolute requirement. I view Z and RM in the same way. Vendors and landlords would, generally, laugh us out of their property if we told them on vals that we were with OTM”
         
        Agree on the tax part!  But how does your pitch end up revolving around being on RM, Zoopla or OTM?  I think as agents we place too much emphasise on that point, we think its the be all and end all for our vendors and landlords and it isnt. It’s in our minds not theirs, much like we think they won’t pay 2%, 1.75% or whatever it is.  You carry on that way and you start believing you have to offer 0.75% to get the business!

        I remember agents saying they are not on Zoopla, as a way to try and win instructions from us?   Is that it, is that all you have got to try and win the business, are you actually saying the only way to sell a property, is to be on a portal?

        You might as well say, here’s your valuation, now go stick it online yourself or use those PB guys and save yourself a few quid!

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    2. PeeBee

      “A future where an agency owned portal would charge everyone the same…”

      That’s utter b0ll0cks and you know it, ‘docklander52’.  And here’s why:

      As an “early adopter” (certainly NOT the ‘founding member’ status you claimed in a post yesterday) Gold Member you were to benefit from a pre-launch rate which AM – OTM was not in existence at this point – guaranteed would be lower than that offered to later entrants.  There were also additional tiers of Membership which were not, at that point, finalised in terms of cost but again it was stated that these would cost more (minimum +15% I recall *) for less in return.  

      Unless you can prove to me otherwise, THAT NEVER CHANGED.  

      What DID change however is that ‘non-Member’ listing-only options were offered, at greatly reduced monthly fees, but without any Member benefits, in order to increase stock and potential full Memberships.

      “Vendors and landlords would, generally, laugh us out of their property if we told them on vals that we were with OTM.”

      WOULD?  Don’t you mean DID? It must have happened – because you WERE with OTM.  For well over a year, unless I am mistaken.  Surely you wouldn’t make up that sentence just for effect?  Is it some bizarre attempt to add flavour to the crock of b0ll0cks you’re trying to get the likes of me to chew on?

      Or just some cockamamie attempt at self-convincing *********** (credit: Jonnie) ‘cos we ain’t swallowing it!

      Let’s assume that it’s the former not the latter – that would be the end of the match and I’m just starting to feel warmed up.

      Must’ve been a real canine female – all those months with no new instructions to populate the site you were forking out all that money for, was it?  

      All that business… lost without a trace…

      …because your staff couldn’t sell THEMSELVES or your company and its’ benefits without BOTH of what you refer to above as “the big 2” for crutches.

      * I have a presentation Pack somewhere if you want me to quote verbatim – but that will just make your embarrassment deeper, seeing as you will have received (at least one hard copy AND don’t forget the PDF copy that was distributed also); watched the presentation on a six-foot screen at one of the ra-ra Membership drives we all attended in 2013 /14 AND read all about it when splashed all over the trade press – including here, EAT, The Neg to name but a few – like we all did.  

      Oh – and let’s not forget all the bumf you WILL have had shoved down your throat at every opportunity through your NFloPP Membership – seeing as the MD sits on the Board of AM…

      I’d like you to read the following quote found on one of the above sites, ‘docklander52’.  The author – clearly passionate about his business and the future of both it and the industry – sums up perfectly the need to stick with and support OTM  – but I’ll let his words, from April 2016, do the talking: 

      “You know, I really dont get agents some / a-lot-of the time! We all moaned about the duopoly that ZooplaMove enjoyed.

      We moaned about the increase in prices. We moaned about the lack of choice. OTM then arrived. A portal owned by agents with the express aim of disrupting the duopoly and bringing our costs down. Did we agents embrace this? No we MOANED. I admire OTM’s aims and remain in support of it as a portal. I hope it will continue to gain momentum and market share. Clearly neither of these things would happen overnight but give it time and it should/could continue to grow. Just my thoughts based on 20+ years as an agency owner in one of London’s most demanding marketplaces.

      Give it a chance guys, the constant whinging is a little pathetic. If you don’t get it or want to support it, thats fine but the constant negativity feels a little playground-like….”

      Powerful words – wouldn’t you say?  Pretty d@mn compelling argument.

      But apparently not to every Tom, Docklander52 and Harry in our industry…

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  11. NickTurner

    Spot on Woodentop. I mentioned yesterday on another thread that those ‘new’ to agency put too much emphasis on the portals selling their properties. They list them, ping up on their preferred portal and sit back a wait. Another comment was that agents are lazy and indeed some are.

    Good agents still use their data base to phone buyers, keep in touch with them, proactively tell them about properties about to come onto the market or those that are available privately and quietly, and not on any portal.

    Portals are a very good aid and tool for agents- they are no substitute for good old agency best practise but some agents think that is all you have to do. It irritates me when I call an agent to enquire about a particular property or asking what they have available to be told ‘ all our properties are on our website or portal x,y and z.  Aghhhh!.

    Again you right with the public attitude. I act as a buying agent and as long as I get the information quickly I don’t mind which portal it is on as long as it is there and simple to access. I love it when agents actually tell me before they appear  but they are few and far between   but by jove are they good agents who deserve their success in the local and national marketplace.

    What would be interesting if all portals were turned off for two weeks and see how agents were able to get the news of new instructions to their applicants…….. In fact I wonder how many firms have practised as part of their emegency planning scenario how they would operate if such an occurance happened?

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    1. Woodentop

      I shall give you a “like”. It will be interesting to see how many dislikes are gained by the end of the day! Estate agency as you have indicated is a service, web protals are an advert. The new breed of agents, particulary on-liners are buying customers on price and ridicule competitors, which is shoddy salesmanship ….. the type of behaviour the public perceives of car salesman and double glazing reps gained in the 1990’s and I believ is why many customers still use the high street agent. The older are wise.
       
      You only get back what you are prepared to put in.

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  12. Chris Wood

    What IS interesting regarding Zoopla/ ZPG group is that, contrary to their stated marketing material http://jupix.com/software/software-features/ they appear to be refusing to offer a live feed to other service suppliers. Apart from contractual and misleading advertising issues this, in itself, might be construed as an abuse of a dominant market position.

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  13. AJB006

    I hear Zoopla called the win ‘pyrrhic’..  that made me chuckle, sore losers to the end. And how wrong they are…

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    1. docklander52

      I love learning new words. Thanks AJB.

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  14. AgentV

    If OTM has ?7,000 agents paying ?£250 per month each thats £1,750,000 per month. Where is all that currently going?

    Could OTM not fund a marketing campaign, equivalent in size to that of PB, extolling the virtues of Full Service Agents and where to find them and their properties?

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  15. Marketshare

    Well done OTM, I was delighted to hear the result of such a drawn out and protracted distraction to what should have been a huge push to take the brand forward.  Well played Connells (with their brotherZ in arms) for delaying the process.  Now that we know exactly what we are up against with the corporates and Z can we please ‘grow some’ and let Karma prevail.  Let’s treat this as a kick up the @r5e and a call to arms (over dramatic?).

    As an OTM supporter we now have just one more chance to get it right. What continues to frustrate me is that OTM don’t seem to realise the true strength of being owned by agents.  We are not being utilised at all to spread the word and bring forward new agents to strengthen the portal.

    The bickering, in-fighting and short term competitive thinking needs to be put to one side for the greater good.

    For what it’s worth my advice to Ian is first and foremost to double or triple the number of reps.  Then work on a county by county basis with current members hosting meetings and inviting non-OTM agents to attend.  The object being to simply get more property on OTM than Zoopla then shouting it from the rooftops with multi agent branding attached.  This will get the ball rolling and momentum will then build.

    Stock has to come first, the general public will follow particularly if all agents agree to list on OTM  in advance of other portals.

    If we take the other route and throw money at public awareness without the product to back it up we will fail.

    This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to change our industry for good and take back control of the instructions that we fight for so very hard every day of the week.

    To those agents that have moved from OTM back to Zoopla, come back and join.  Help us to take control of our own destiny in the digital arena, own your own instructions, own your own data and going forward we will create a platform that could underpin our industry in the years to come.

     

     

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    1. Woodentop

      You owe it to your wife or husband and children  (or to be) if you want a future within the industry.

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    2. AgencyInsider

      Hats off to you Marketshare. That is an erudite, persuasive, powerful posting and one that should be nailed to the wall and acted upon by every agency that values its future. I just hope to goodness that the powers that be at AM/OTM read it, take heed, take a huge grip of their knickers, and power forward. This is absolutely their last and possibly best chance to win through!

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