Can this property really have been and come and gone eight times in the last two and a half years?

juggle-tweet-screen-shot-2016-12-07-at-11-18-48

 

It was this anguished tweet, above, that caught our eye.

But could this property really have been and come and gone a total of eight times?

Working in reverse order, we can see it was listed on Rightmove on December 7 at £575,000. By yesterday morning, just one day later, it had gone.

It was previously listed by the same agent on Rightmove on October 7 (at £530,000); August 18; June 1 (at £497,000); March 22; December 22, 2015; February 2, 2015; and May 28, 2014 (at £450,000).

As can be seen, the property was initially listed for about four months, and then for over seven months. Since then, however, the property has put in “blink and you’ll miss it” appearances.

We think this is a mystery of our times.

At first sight, it looks as though this property has remained stubbornly on the market for some two and a half years, while the owner – undeterred by its failure to sell – has put up the asking price, and by quite a lot.

Or maybe the vendor kept changing their mind as to whether they really wanted to sell.

On the other hand, perhaps it has changed hands and each buyer has kept the previous owner’s furniture.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-53509708.html – listed 22/3/16 – 27/3/16

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-44740812.html – listed 7/10/16 – 7/10/16

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55712377.html – listed 18/8/16 – 18/8/16

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-54417076.html – listed 1/6/16 – 1/6/16

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-53509708.html – listed 22/3/16 – 27/3/16

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-56806982.html – listed 22/12/15 – 22/12/15

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-50310110.html – listed 2/2/15 – 22/9/15

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-44539057.html – listed 28/5/14 – 23/9/14

 

Below is its latest fleeting appearance

 

2016-12-07-octojuggle

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55 Comments

  1. smile please

    Best case scenario is a vendor it getting poor advice on how to market their property.

    Would be interesting if we can work out the full address, run a land registry check and ask the owner what is going on.

    Also what is the portal playing at? If an estate agent can see this abuse of the system how come a multi million pound company cannot detect it. Embarrassing.

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    1. PeeBee

      You may have noticed – but I LOVE QUOTES, I do.

      “If an estate agent can see this abuse of the system how come a multi million pound company cannot detect it. Embarrassing.” (Smile Please, 2016)

      “You ain’t seen NOTHING yet…” (Bachman-Turner Overdrive, 1974 – and every day since)

      I’ve got GIGS, they’re miltiplyin’… and I’m losing control…” – (anon… just now)

      ;o)

       

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      1. AgentV

        It’s electrifying.

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        1. PeeBee

          It certainly will be…

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      2. Thomas Flowers

        Thank you PeeBee, Chris and Robert for all your efforts.

        PeeBee, I love a good quote also:

        ‘We are now masters of our own fate’ Winston Churchill.

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        1. PeeBee

          Thank you, Sir – but I must point out that it is the combined efforts of quite a few more than the three you give credit to (some of whom may not welcome the attention of being named so I will refrain).

          However, it must be stated that Ros and EYE have consistently followed and reported events almost as soon as they happen – which we are all aware has been a barbed-wire tightrope walk on many occasions.

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  2. sb007ck

    Unfortunately for all Rightmove, and TPOs rhetoric about portal juggling, they wont crack down on any of these call centre agents. It will be a traditional estate agent that is the first to suffer, probably a small one or two office company, that they seek to make an example from, whose business Rightmove wont miss.

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    1. PeeBee

      Correct.

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  3. belly1234

    Is it not obvious that it’s a Purplebricks employee……sorry, I mean ‘Local Property Expert’

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    1. PeeBee

      How do you mean, belly1234?

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    2. Robert May

      There is a property in Oswestry that had some obsessive compulsive switching it from sale agreed to sstc and back to sale agreed 22 times in 24 hours! All through the day , all through the night. No-one sits up all night doing that which suggests it is an automated process. Whatever it is it is  not normal estate agency which follows very routine patterns.

      Anything that falls outside normal patterns of  behaviour is digitally  easy to spot and because it’s the internet indelible.

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  4. sb007ck

    The property has already been removed from Rightmove, be it by them or PB i have no idea.

    If anyone is interested the address is Fairfield House, Elham, Canterbury, CT4 6UT

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    1. smile please

      Will do a land registry check on this later today.

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    2. PeeBee

      It was removed at approximately 0700 on the day it was uploaded, sometime soon after midnight.

      I call them #goneinsevenhourjuggles

      (Sorry, Eamonn – but you already know my Head’s Gone ;o) )

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      1. Robert May

        Our technical term for  those is  pulse juggles, they come on at  about 0010 and get taken down before dawn   We have monitored 20 branches of a single firm pulse juggling on a regular basis.

        We refer to them as Meatloaf;  “Like a bat out of hell they’re gone when the morning comes!”

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        1. AgentV

          How about Vampire juggles

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        2. Eamonn

          pmsl.

          Enough.

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          1. PeeBee

            Enough?

            Never!

            I’m the pain that just doesn’t go away, mon ami! ;o)

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      2. Eamonn

        Lol.  you said it.  But your more than animated today for some reason.

        On a different note I do respect the spotting of this offence.  But can you see anything truly coming as a result?  If you can I would love to know.

         

        MY opinion. I can’t see anything happening expect an informally resolved solution and based on the evidence of previous performance I can’t see this being different.  Knowing this will purple bricks and others will always pay this type of shxt lip service and say whoopsy us.

         

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        1. Robert May

          the words “criminal investigation” have  been put into print elsewhere

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        2. AgentV

          To do it for any advantage it will have to be done on many properties by the same protagonists. I presume Roberts new system will pick this all up…. and then we will have a ‘scoreboard’ system building up.

          Hopefully evidence of consistent violations will be taken notice of and acted on? Hopefully?

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        3. PeeBee

          Eamonn – you say

          “MY opinion. I can’t see anything happening expect an informally resolved solution and based on the evidence of previous performance I can’t see this being different.  Knowing this will purple bricks and others will always pay this type of shxt lip service and say whoopsy us.”

          You may well be right.  It may not even amount to that. However, I have faith and confidence that those right always triumphs over wrong – that fighters who abide by the Queensberry rules will eventually win the match, even if they lose a couple of rounds when the ref misses the low blows and rabbit punches.

          It is clear that some of the referees not only see those blows and ignore them for what they are – they happily add them to the score.  People have to question why a referee would do this – it’s not really up to me to comment but one possible suggestion could be that controversial decisions usually lead to a bigger audience at the next match.

          I’m one of the fighters – not a referee.  However, for the first time in my working life – spanning five decades – I am seriously considering a change that would allow me to fight from the outside of the ring.  Watch this space.

          Final point.  The legend that is Muhammad Ali is believed to have won most of his fights before the first punch was thrown.  The Louisville Lip caused more damage with verbal jabs than his fearsome fists ever did.

          Can you imagine how effective his Tw@tter account could have been?

          I rest my case.

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          1. PeeBee

            Tell you what – I’ll try to kid myself that the ‘Dislikes’ are because three (and counting) people don’t want me to change direction.

            Those who would suffer the effects if I do should be praying to their Dark Gods of Deception I don’t.

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  5. Robert May

    Let me see 1 property juggled 8 times is a portaljuggle score of 512 points.  12 more points than is required to launch an investigation  into  whether that is portaljuggling or some unfortunate  and accidental software glitch.

    If a suggested scoring system finds favour with the regulators  reaching 1000 points would mean having redress  suspended while the firm/ branch is investigated.

    An agent reaching 2000 should having redress permanently suspended.

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    1. AgentV

      I am not aware of our software ever doing this by accident…except sometimes when we do sales letters it automatically removes the property from the market …and then we have to put it back as marketed but ‘under offer’ or ‘sold’. But isn’t more than once indicative of deliberate juggling?

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      1. Robert May

        We are investigating cases where software is double loading properties. It is only right  that agents aren’t adversely affected by bad and glitchy software. If software is designed to automate the juggling process that indicates deliberate intent.

        There is a common  link between several  separate firms whose listings are being monitored.

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  6. sb007ck

    But remember, because it suits them, any portal juggling accusations, can now probably only be considered since the Ombudsman, Rightmove and NTSEAT decided it was important.

    Also remember they are understaffed, underpaid, and under-give-a-damn

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    1. Robert May

      trust me on this  when Chris Wood sniffs wrong doing he pursues it like Jack Russell after a rat.

      Report
  7. AgentV

    My understanding of this is that it must be a deliberate software implementation for a property to be on and then removed so many times in such a relatively short period. The only thing I don’t understand is what advantage it possibly confers to do it to this extent ( rather than once a week for instance)? Or is it just totally incompetent software as well?

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    1. AgentV

      Unless of course multiple juggles on the same property automatically create multiple email alerts being fired out, and this is being used as a deliberate ploy to substantially increase ‘brand awareness’?

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      1. Homefinders Plus

        I’m not quite sure whether anyone has answered as to what the benefits of this are, I am assuming statistics somewhere. As to the question of timing, if it is placed on and taken off t’interweb in the hours of darkness, is this to ensure the owner does not find out?

        As a buying agent, to see a propety off the market less than 12 hours after it was placed on simply makes me think (if a valid sale) that it was undervalued. ***Expects a few thumbs down for that comment***

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  8. Property Paddy

    Meanwhile all PB’s smoke and mirrors means they’re share price is up to £1.40

    Clearly it pays to be vague !

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    1. AgentV

      But the latest claim on their website is ‘your own local expert from valuation to completion’ … which suggests they should know categorically how many sales they actually complete. Shouldn’t they? So why do they need to be vague?

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  9. Property Paddy

    Sobering(ish) thought.

    If PB “coc&” about with 1% of their instructions portal juggling or what ever does it have much of an overall impact on their market presence?

    Equally is it more than 1%?

    Or is 1% of their entire stock enough to cause disruption where they have some market presence?

    I mentioned this before; they relisted a house on my patch but when I asked the owner what was up, she said it was sold but they had experienced a little difficulty with the buyer so remarketed it. I asked if the buyer had fallen through, she said no and was asking PB to remove it as for sale. Which they did a couple of hours later.

    Wasallthatabout?

     

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  10. Taff

    Am I being thick? What would an agent gain by adding a property after midnight and removing it by 7:00am ie at times when most sane people will be asleep. Surely the only people who would see it in that 6-7 hour window would be bored insomniacs or seriously dedicated prospective buyers.

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    1. PeeBee

      Taff

      How’s about you act as our guinea pig?

      Try it yourself – “List” a budgie cage or something similar as a property (as reported here on EYE it’s been done before), and make it ‘Live’ between midnight and 7am – and see how many ‘views’ it gets.

      Then have a look on RM+ and see if it has been counted as a “Listing” in your stats – and therefore in the stats of your competitors.

      Go on – you know it would be rude not to…

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  11. wardy

    Just wanted to applaud Chris, PeeBee, Robert, Smile and EYE (sorry if I’ve missed anyone) for all their hard work on this. Just goes to show what can be achieved with a bit of know how and stubbornness! Well done guys.

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    1. PeeBee

      Cheers, wardy – gratefully received.  I believe I can speak on behalf of the entire group in that respect.

      Report
    2. smile please

      Cheers Wardy,

      I am however more of a “Fan boy” as opposed to any real help on this.

      Chris, Robert, PeeBee, Dobby and NTSEAT and others are the real champions.

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  12. AgentV

    When this all comes out in the public domain ….will agents ever be trusted again. My fear is we all get tarnished with the same brush in the end!

    I would suggest we need a representative or panel of people to stand up, differentiate and distance independent agents from these practices.

    Will the NAEA take up the mantle?

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  13. Stubby26

    On the Purplebricks platform the vendor may withdraw and relist their own property manually as many times as they like as they have direct access to the marketing. It is an instant upload. Can the vendor be warned directly by Rightmove? I do not think so as there is no direct connection to the vendor.

     

    I believe all this suits Rightmove and if the public as a whole are swayed by direct platform marketing like Purplebricks or a Ebay model, then the next logical step will be for Rightmove to move into direct marketing themselves. When the income stream from agents slips enough and public opinion towards direct online marketing improves enough, then Rightmove will pounce.

     

     

     

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    1. PeeBee

      “On the Purplebricks platform the vendor may withdraw and relist their own property manually as many times as they like as they have direct access to the marketing.”

      It is THE ESTATE AGENT’S responsibility to check that ALL marketing information they produce for circulation within the public domain is compliant with Legislation, Stubby26.

      If ANY Agent allows their clients to change, amend, manipulate or otherwise falsify information which is then put into the public domain ‘via’ that Estate Agent, then they are liable for any compliance issues with that client-amended information.

      ‘Progress’ doesn’t always travel in a forward direction… and doesn’t always result in a positive outcome.

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  14. smile please

    Seems to be a lot of deleted and edited posts on this thread.

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  15. inthefield

    Brilliant Chris Wood. I applaud your tenacity. Perhaps you should be at ARLA to help us battle these ridiculous fee bans? PeeBee well done also for keeping up the pace on these cowboys

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  16. AgentV

    Where would our industry be without these modern day ‘wild west’ marshals?

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  17. PeeBee

    The above figure includes this one (‘your starter for ten’, as good old Bamber would say) as having been ‘listed’ today – http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/40705199#Zg3bYVhsH0XccAxu.97

    Previously listed in May and removed on 8/9/16 (source: RM Plus).

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  18. Thomas Flowers

    I agree Eamonn but what about PB’s customers?

    Full service estate agents have to comply with the Estate Agency Act so as to ensure that their clients get the best possible price (their is a difference between customers and clients) on a No Sale, No Charge basis?

    That is why proper estate agency should never be allowed to be classed or become a retail business?

    Do loss leading ‘diluters’ have the same incentive to comply with this act when it may appear that a principle reason, to actually bother to sell a property, may be to cross sell conveyancing services with huge referral commissions that  put most tenant fees to shame, for no additional service whatsoever?

    What if those conveyancing services are also offered to buyers? Could this influence any decision making?

    Should this also be explored by those regulatory bodies?

     

     

     

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  19. Property Paddy

    he he he he he !

    I might be keeping an “eye” on the London stock exchange

    🙂

     

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  20. PeeBee

    “Full service estate agents have to comply with the Estate Agency Act…”

    Erm… unless I’ve missed something while on holiday, ALL Estate Agents – regardless of level of service provided – have an obligation to comply with The Estate Agents Act 1979 (and later amendments).

    Don’t they?

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  21. PeeBee

    And another:

    http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/40707973

    Previously listed TWICE, May-August then again for one day on 8/9/16 (source: RM Plus).

    8/9/16 – why does that date seem familiar…?

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  22. PeeBee

    Or this one:

    http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/40706851#8GxdTzhAwxvIm8xm.97

    Actually listed around six weeks ago but now showing as “Just added”.

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  23. PeeBee

    Or these two, even –

    http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/41219734#JsDlxvrQomsIAyPB.97

    which was listed in August

    http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/41027113#3LYbD6XXu2xbSojf.97

    which was a July listing

    but both now claim a place in the “Just added” lottery draw.

    There’s FIVE – and I’m not even past the “100 Most Recent”!

    Need I continue?

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  24. Thomas Flowers

    You would have thought so PeeBee.

    That is my point, how can PB comply with this Act if they have no financial incentive to get the best price for their customer as the only incentive they have to sell after payment is to sell their conveyancing partners services for mind boggling referral fees?

    I suspect that NTSEAT may agree?

    That is why paid upfront agents must be made to produce actual sales figures every 3 months so that NTSEAT can monitor whether these customers are getting value for their money?

    Traditional agents do not need such monitoring because they only get paid on completion of the deal?

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  25. PeeBee

    Hmmm… going to have to play Devil’s Advocate here, I think.

    Do you have a ‘Minimum Fixed Fee’ for lower-priced properties?

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  26. Thomas Flowers

    Good evening PeeBee,

    Was hoping to talk to you privately, have somethings I would like to run past you?

    How can I get hold of you?

    Report
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