How many times can a house have its asking price adjusted within a year?
And is it only the websites of the online and hybrid agents where you see asking prices going up, going down, listed, removed and re-listed?
And – apparently – have a new price listed even after going under offer.
Well, according to analyst Propcision, which compares and contrasts figures on Rightmove, there are some interesting examples.
Propcision is an add-on to Rightmove, run by an external service. Users can add it via Firefox and Chrome. It is currently only available for London properties but the service is due to roll out nationally.
When Rightmove users browse properties through Rightmove, it automatically shows information such as price changes, number of times price adjusted, and also flags up motivated sellers based on property history.
It claims to have found one property, listed with online House Network, whose asking price has been adjusted 11 times since going on the market on March 26 last year.
It started off at £599,950 and is now £575,000. In between times, it has been priced as high as £625,000.
It is one of three properties which Propcision says have had their prices adjusted the most.
In second place is one that was marketed by high street agent Ludlow Thompson last August.
Propcision claims it started at £649,995 and has had nine different prices – including one of £550,000 in January, which three days later bounced up to £599,995, but which is now on at £585,000.
In third place is a property listed with Purplebricks since last June, which has had its price adjusted eight times.
http://propcision.com/blog/priceadj.php
This is how we reported the launch of Propcision:
New ‘add-on’ to Rightmove gets set to show more of a home’s selling history
Mickey mouse valuers.
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Concerning that an agent has absolutely no confidence in its valuing methods. Reeks of desperation/optimism and guesswork.
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Hi Rosalind, Thought I would just reply as it is my property featured as having the most changes! Firstly one thing that’s true to say is that setting the correct valuation is not an exact science. I use an online agent who did not really have much to say about the valuation I was happy to set it myself. Having sold an identical property in the same building 2 years before, Land Registry’s House Price Calculator suggests a valuation of £619k, however, that valuation is broad as it covers all of Southwark. Ideally the price would remain unchanged, even more ideally it would have sold quickly. In the absence of that we have recent new build schemes in the area, only 800m away which are marketing 2 bed/ 2 bath apartments at up to £817k!! and the lowest is £634k. That’s over-priced but we are substantially below that. Behind your story though is a family selling a lovely flat who just want to move on! It should be said that the vast majority of the price changes are because a drop of 2% or greater illicites an email from Rightmove to all those following prices alerts for the postcode so it puts it in the shop window so to speak.
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Hello James I am a little confused, you are using an agent but are having to do all this work on Rightmove yourself? Is it fair to say the listing fee you have paid simply gives you access to Rightmove?
Which agent is it? The fact the agent didn’t have much idea about valuation breaches one of the basic contractual obligations of Agency. The fact the agent is merely a means to bypass Rightmove’s Agents only policy will concern many.
Thank you for posting, I suspect you might find paying a traditional agent to do the job properly will pay dividends. The claimed saving in fees will be more than eaten up by the increase in value of the property you are hoping to buy.
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Good afternoon James and many thanks for the explanation regarding your property’s price fluctuations. Have you ever wondered what sort of message you might be sending out to prospective purchasers through your actions? As to putting it in the shop window, you may be, but unfortunately for all the wrong reasons, in my humble opinion. The fact that you sold a similar property a couple of years ago does not really give you the depth of knowledge to be able to accurately price the property appropriately for the current market, something that has been borne out by the lack of a buyer and the price changes.The apparent lack of input from your “sales agent” just goes to show you do really get what you pay for. Good luck with selling your home, I would love to know your motivation for going down your chosen route and whether you would do anything differently, knowing what you know now?
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I love the comment about your online agent not giving you any advice on value. Why would you use an agent who won’t tell you what you should expect.
You should never guess numbers.
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I wish the seller well with his sale but echo the above comments about agency: There is a difference between cheap and value for money.
What this does highlight, however, is that it would appear that some call-centre and hybrid agents are allowing sellers access to their (the agents) Zoopla and Rightmove logins and, seemingly, coaching sellers on how to game the portals algorithms. This would strongly suggest that these firms are using this tactic to become passive intermediaries and, thus, breaking Rightmove and Zooplas’ rules on such practices.
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Very concerning all this. It does highlight the fact that the call centre receptionists are just that. Weve all been saying for moths and months that this is what would happen and I suppose in a way its good that these horror stories are starting to come through. Imagine sitting a vendor down when their house isnt selling and saying ” what we should do is just keep putting the price up and down just in case we can catch someone that hasnt perhaps seen it before, oh and we need to make sure we go up and down to the right percentage so that it catches the rightmove robots out”
Meanwhile all the buyers are looking at it thinking, whats wrong with this place, im not buying that. TOTALLY counter productive.
Im glad theyve done this as it shows these lot up for what they are…numpties hoping to make a quick buck without actually doing anything except pressing a few buttons. You’re as well to put it on ebay.
James, please take my/our advice and employee a real estate agent that you can talk to properly with a strategy. I promise you will come out on top in the end and no doubt sell for more than these lot told you.
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Interesting reading all the replies, I am aware of a disliking towards online agents taking business away from traditional high st agents, it that sense you might say I am part of the problem? I am writing here only in the capacity of a seller/ homeowner. I sold my first property in 2005 using Halfapercent.com, the Agent was knowledgeable and helpful, what I liked from the start was being able to conduct the viewings- no-one knows your home as well as you the owner! I had sought valuations beforehand x 3 to be sure of the price, it sold for the asking price without fuss. I sold my next property through the same agents in 2009 but repeating the same process of seeking valuations beforehand I was shocked at the range being £275k – £300k specifically being told that there was no chance of achieving above £300k, I felt certain that the valuation of £340k (which I had set was fair and achievable). I had numerous viewings and it too sold for my valuation of £340k, I was extremely troubled by the fact that had I conceded to the agent who advised £275k I would have ‘lost’ £65k! Onto my 3rd property (the one in the same building I am currently in), we had used high street agents without luck (3 different agents) so I used House Network as Halfapercent.com were out of business, I got a buyer quickly but the deal was scuppered by a surveyors valuation £50k below the agreed price. There was a new buyer immediately, it sold for £450k which was £75k over the surveyors estimate (I had another offer at £485k but I don’t gazump!). So I have had good experiences with online agents historically. With my current property it has been inexplicably difficult to sell, my feeling is that the prices in the market really have gone beyond saturation point and as a 2 bed/ 2 bath property I have a limited market who I am selling to because it is a lot of money to spend/ finance on a mortgage and as we know wages have not kept pace with property price rises. Over the last almost 1 year we have had 2 high street agents without luck. We have to change something though!
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Morning James, if you would like to get in contact via Twitter ( follow and DM then unfollow) I can probably offer some assistance. I think you are one of the victims of disruptive innovation that simply doesn’t work. There is something very curious about your property listing that goes beyond the price change portal juggling. If nothing more you will get honest, impartial advice on what you should try next and I will hopefully get to understand a curious evolution of property listings that the digital detective has spotted.
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The average price for flats and maisonettes in SE5 8E is currently £370,000 which itself is about 18% over trend for the area. Achieving £200,000 more than the average for the area when volume of sales for the area are down 25% on trend is going to be an achievement whoever sells it.
The details on Rightmove show it to be a super place but it is perhaps an ‘outlier’ for the area.
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Robert, Thanks for the further emails, I would like nothing more than to employ a high street agent and achieve a sale which would then contradict my experience so far. My view on selling online has changed slightly, these are my thoughts:
Pro’s online- Obviously cost is a big one. Control over your property is another, ability to change details/ photos + doing your own viewings. Also when viewing do occur it is because people genuinely are interested in your property because they have looked at the details and not because they were pushed into coming.
Cons online- Definitely a factor is not having someone actively pushing your property, that just does not happen online, also we have experienced some mishaps with viewings being wrongly recorded owing to admin errors and nobody turning up because it was booked one week out, that’s terrible when you spend hours tidying for a viewing. I think we have missed out on one sale on our home as there was definitely an offer close to £600k which I blame myself for, I should have realised it was an opportunity. We also had one person who arranged a viewing then cancelled within 30mins citing the high £1,750 service charge, again a high st agent would have pointed out that is below average for London but they merely informed me it had been cancelled for that reason- yes some are definitely just call centres.
Anyhow for me is still just does not add up that we have not sold or had more interest and offers, I do not believe in relying simply on the last sale in the area or the average, no two homes are the same. Had we sold just below £600k we wouldn’t be talking about low averages for SE5 and I wouldn’t be writing this email! It only takes one person!
Just to pick up on some earlier comments we have no control directly on rightmove portals but we are free to login to our House Network account and change the price as often as we want. I figured out the 2% drop myself, I think it was useful once. Ideally we would have one price and stick with it, but over time prices change, especially in London and when a new development springs up 800m away in a worst location for transport connections + a big development (surely smaller is better) with prices around £200k more, you don’t sit with the same price?!
I appreciate the debate!
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That helpful (to the wrong people) website Zoopla already show the world the embarrassing history of #pricejuggling on this – and every other listed on the site – property:
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/33031427?search_identifier=4a43bd1f84ec2099a3852287ff6771c4#rSoHfBs7MDyfR9H7.97
I would imagine it’s only a matter of time before RM do it themselves – they’ve ran out of ‘innovations’ to “improve the end-user experience”…
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PeeBee, Read my posts, I never set out to price juggle as you put it. Intention was to set a fair price and stick with it, do you simply remain at the same price when a new development arrives with prices £200k greater than yours for the same property?? Part of the reason we seek the best fair price and haven’t simply crashed the price to sell is that we are under no pressure to move, I have no mortgage, we love our home, I am a 25 min bike ride to work and have no travel costs, I have number 1 daughter in a good local school and number 2 in a good nursery so I can afford to wait. Believe me there was no desire to begin moving the price- does that make sense to you?
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Mr Anderson.
I HAVE read your posts. Several times, in fact. I stand by what I said. Your property has been #pricejuggled to a massive extent. You may not have set out to do it – but done it to death you have – and now it looks like a comedy sketch in the writing.
I say ‘now it looks’ – but of course today it doesn’t ‘look’ that way at all, as I see it has been removed from Zoopla, Rightmove, and the rest of the internet.
Probably the wisest thing you could have done under the circumstances.
WHEN and IF you are ready to remarket your property, please revisit this site, via Ros – and I assure you that there are people here who can and will genuinely do whatever they can to help you achieve a sale.
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What is a value is in itself an interesting subject. To a seller the value is the highest price it will achieve within a certain time restraint. To a lender it is surely the price that would be paid by the second purchaser in a reasonably quick time frame as it is being used as a security (thus mortgage values are sometimes below sale prices). Valuation is both science and an art – it is guessing based on very local trends and tastes using previous hard evidence as a base line. Or maybe this is just my thoughts!!!!
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Re: “I used House Network as Halfapercent.com were out of business”
Dear jamesanderson83
Doesn’t this tell you something ? Anything ? Anything at all?
Yes traditional agents cost more, and most have been in business for decades, even, in some cases over a century. And the reason is because (in case young James hasn’t quite got the gist) it costs money to properly market and successfully sell a property.
I really hope jamesanderson83 has invested all his money in PB shares, put his money where he thinks the future of this business is.
Oh and I sincerely hope you told the three (I presume traditional) agents you asked to price up your properties that you had no intention of using them but intending to use a cheap on line agent to save yourself money because if you didn’t then you were falsely asking for advice knowingly. What’s more it goes to show what little regard you have for our industry and therefore the same from me to you.
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Property Paddy, no need to be so condescending I am not casting aspersions on high street agents just stating my experiences, as said I have used a total of 5 high street agents (not for valuations but signed contracts) without success- I did write this in my earlier posts. What is undeniable is that I have sold 3 times in 10 years successfully and in one instance certainly started a boom in the area which continues to this day for which many high street agents have no doubt benefitted from, surely you must see the bigger picture. The difference is I am writing as an individual who simply wants to sell his home for the best price using the cheapest method possible- absolutely nothing wrong with that and if you weren’t an agent defending your business (which is understandable) you would appreciate my intentions are probably similar to 99% of the population?! As I have written I have found to my cost that this does not always work.
If you want my humble opinion I think that in the future you will not see the same amount of high street agents that currently exist, not in any way because they do a bad job but simply because of technology. Technology revolutionises and changes every aspect of commerce continually and this is just a natural development, what I think we will see though is a realisation of the limitation in the service provided by online agents, in a rising market with a property that ‘sells itself’ online agents will thrive, traditional agents will always fair better, on balance, selling in a stagnant or declining market. I just think that in a rising market there is not so much reliance or need for someone to sell your home.
I don’t have little regard for the industry just want to sell!
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Hi James
Thanks for posting so much detail about your various experiences, it makes very interesting reading.
In my opinion, marketing your property with an online agent simply means the property is being advertised, not actively sold. As such, you really are a passive bystander in the process and do not really have anyone working on your behalf. The fact that you have tried to inject some proactivity yourself, through fiddling around with the price, is admirable but ill thought out, as all you’ve done is highlight that you’re property is tough to sell. As a result, buyers will naturally start to wonder what the problem is – is it over priced? Is it a poor location? Is there something I don’t know? You really want buyers to be thinking about the reasons they should buy, not the reasons they shouldn’t.
I can’t emphasise enough how important it is to have a team proactively working on your behalf, who make a case as to why prospective buyers should consider your property, its merits over the competition etc. Personally, I’m a big believer that the agent’s role isn’t to sell your property, it’s to sell somebody the idea of viewing your property. This is at odds with your own point on viewings – that you only want viewings from people who are genuinely interested. How do they know if they’re genuinely interested if they haven’t actually viewed? You would be amazed at the number of people who buy property that, if left to their own devices, wouldn’t have viewed in the first place. This is the sign of a good agent, not a bad agent. I appreciate you may not be overly keen to accommodate an endless stream of viewings, but when you use an agent, it’s their time that’s being taken up, not yours. Selling property is very often a numbers game, so you need somebody capable of generating the numbers. Aside from that, having lots of viewings helps when you do find an interested buyer. If someone asks you “has their been much interest” you want to be able to say, “yes, we’ve got 16 viewings lined up on Saturday so I would advise moving quickly”. This reassures buyers that the property is desirable which will help galvanise their interest and also put their best offer forward.
Generating a sufficient number of viewings is an area where the online agents struggle. They are simply forwarding you enquiries from those people looking online for your style of property in your specific location. They don’t have a database of buyers they can work with, including those people who may be prepared to consider your location, but it’s not their primary choice. As such, your online advertising isn’t reaching them. If you go to a strong, well established local agent (not the cheapest local agent!) with several offices in surrounding areas, they will have a huge list of potential buyers for you that may currently be blissfully unaware that you’re property is even on the market. If you ask your online agent how many buyers they have looking for apartments in and around SE5, it will be a fraction of that number. You have to remember that stock generates buyers, buyers lead to viewings and viewings lead to sales. Because online agents only have a tiny level of stock in any area, they only have a tiny database of buyers for that area.
The other important thing to note is that the longer you remain on the market, the less you will achieve for the property. People just don’t want to buy properties that nobody wants to buy, unless of course they can get them at a discount. Buyers won’t realise that you’ve struggled to sell because you’ve had an ineffective agent, instead they will naturally assume there’s a problem with the property.
Your point on pricing (local agents had said £300k but you achieved £340k) is simply evidence that, ultimately, it’s the market that determines the price. Not the agent or the seller. If you had of gone on with a local agent at £300k, you would have had a queue of prospective buyers and multiple offers, resulting in the agent moving to “Best & Final” offers. The end result would have been the same, as the market always finds it’s own level. However, ironically, you can sometimes end up with the highest price by setting a low marketing price. This is because it results in more interest, more offers and introduces an element of competitive tension. We’ve just sold a property for £868k that was on the market at £800k. It had five offers and went to Best & Final offers, the highest being £868k. However, if this property had gone on the market at £870, it would have generated very little interest.
Sometimes you may get lucky using an online agent, sometimes you may not. I guess that’s the gamble that a small percentage of people are prepared to take. However, as others have already said, choosing the cheapest agent to sell your house is often the most expensive option. As the common law of business practice states, you simply can’t pay a little and get a lot.
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