Listings gap between Rightmove and Zoopla ‘wider than expected’

A new report by investment bank Morgan Stanley has claimed that the listings gap between Rightmove and Zoopla “is wider than expected”.

It also says that Rightmove could be earning a lot more out of agents, with more “legroom” for products such as premium listings.

According to Morgan Stanley, Rightmove could deliver five years of 10% annual growth if online property advertising increases to the same levels as online auto advertising.

The bank’s research says that Rightmove has one million listed properties, Zoopla has 650,000 and OnTheMarket 350,000.

It says: “We had expected to find that Zoopla has 25% fewer properties listed than Rightmove, based on the reported number of agents.

“However, our data suggests that the actual figure is 35%.

“Buyers follow properties, agents follow buyers, and agents pay the property portals, so we think Rightmove could continue to take revenue share.”

The report, which is specifically into Rightmove and has been issued to investors, raises its previous forecasts on the basis that Rightmove could earn more from agents.

It says that 55% of property advertising spend in the UK is online. For cars it is 70%, and in recruitment 90%.

The report says that on the back of growth in Rightmove, earnings per share (EPS) could double in five years, and forecasts 15% annual revenue growth. This is 8% more than Morgan Stanley’s previous forecast.

Its new analysis implies that EPS could be 250p in five years.

It says that agents are spending a “low proportion” online, and that Rightmove has “pricing power”.

But, says the report: “It aims to drive most of its growth by adding value to agents. REA, its Australian peer, makes 56% of its revenue through products; Rightmove is only at 37%.”

However, the report does point out that when comparing Rightmove with REA, the Australian portal “has been successful at monetising the property seller directly, not through the estate agent”.

It adds: “While Rightmove encourages sellers to ‘speak to their agents’ to showcase their properties as featured or premium listings, we do not envisage a shift to a seller-paid model any time soon”.

Morgan Stanley says that Rightmove’s shares are not cheap at first sight, but offer good value through structural growth drivers.

In a section about OnTheMarket, the Morgan Stanley report says: “We knew that Zoopla had lost c. 3.5k agents and that Rightmove’s number of agents was unchanged. As such, we thought that the property difference would be closer to 25%, in line with the new agent split.

“However, it looks as if the concentration of properties with those agents that have left is higher as Zoopla has 35% fewer properties than Rightmove.

“We expect Rightmove to take share.

“We think OnTheMarket properties are mostly concentrated around the same areas, so buyers will start noticing the lack of inventory at Zoopla. If property buyers move from Zoopla to Rightmove, it would tilt the balance of power further. We forecast Rightmove will regain revenue share as a result.”

The report does praise Zoopla’s “highly attractive valuation tools” and notes that Rightmove “now makes similar data available to buyers”.

It also notes “no discernible changes to traffic at Rightmove or Zoopla, but says PrimeLocation traffic is down 18% year on year”.

Looking at ComScore, SimilarWeb and Alexa, it says that traffic to PrimeLocation – part of the Zoopla group – showed a “meaningful deterioration in traffic in February”.

The report says this could be a result of losing London agents to OTM, or a symptom of the cooling London market where PrimeLocation is strongest.

Morgan Stanley raised its share price target for Rightmove from 2,800p to 3,200p, but in a “bull case” scenario from 3,600p to 41,000p. Its worst case “bear” prediction had been 2,000p, based on a loss of 700 agents to OTM.

It has now raised this bear prediction to 2,500p on the basis that Rightmove has lost no agents.

On Friday, Rightmove shares closed at 2,982p.


  1. HarryN

    You couldn’t get a clearer articulation of the crazy thinking behind Agents Mutual.

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    1. phoenix

      I’m not sure that I would entirely agree but you do wonder if, at some point , we will be talking about one UK portal. I hope its OTM because if it isn’t, and it remains right move, the costs that we all bemoan now will seem like pocket change. Have we as agents once again created a monster?

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      1. MF

        The outcome is completely in our hands…

        Only agents can make OTM work.  (Just as they make RM and Z work.)

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        1. Disillusioned

          Its worst case “bear” prediction had been 2,000p, based on a loss of 700 agents to OTM – either Morgan Stanley has got it spectacularly wrong,,,,,or someone else has.

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      2. RealAgent

        We haven’t created a monster it was already there, what we have done so far is mortally wounded  its sister. Whether we kill them both very much depends on those agents not currently with OTM now……..

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        1. Disillusioned

          You have forgotten to mention the bit OTM members still have to play as well regarding RM. I hope you don’t forget that later on as well!

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      3. Archie

        As clear as it could possibly be.  OTM has simply given Rightmove more ‘strength’ as it has simply weakened it’s closest competitor (Zoopla).

        Let’s face it.  Agents HAVE created a monster with OTM.  A monster which has put Rightmove upon an even higher pedestal.

        I am commented before, OTM will not succeed in overtaking Rightmove or even reduce online advertising expense for Agents.  This report clearly outlines significant future growth for Rightmove and Agents will pay.

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        1. RealAgent

          Oh ok Archie, so if the world was about to be invaded by aliens you would be one of those saying ” well why bother mounting a resistance, we are only going to lose people and make them stronger, do what you like you funny little green men”

          Personally I applaud every single estate agent that signed up to OTM because every single one is demonstrating that they have the bottle to actually try and change a situation.

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          1. smile please

            Well said RealAgent, Although i have not signed up i applaud members that have taken the risk to try and influence the market.

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          2. Archie

            I have so enjoyed reading your comment RealAgent.  It genuinely made me chuckle.  Whilst I like the humour, I don’t agree with the content.

            I am glad that I stuck with Rightmove and Zoopla.  Both are generating some terrific enquiries for my business.

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    2. EHenderson

      I can hear it already “Rightmove don’t care about their customers, they just keep on hiking their prices!”.

      You asked for it.

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  2. Property Pundit

    I’ll leave it to bona fide agents to deal with the tediousness of your post. Why do you waste your time here, haven’t you got facebook or twitter? Maybe snapchat is more you.

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  3. RealAgent

    This says two things to me: firstly with 35% less properties anyone on Zoopla is wasting their money as serious house hunters will be looking at OTM for the chance of an early notification of property and Rightmove to see whole of market.

    So the second thing it says to me is Lawrence Hall’s Monday will have started badly!

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    1. Archie

      Wishful thinking!  I suspect one dominant web site is the port of call for most home buyers – and it isn’t OTM.

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      1. RealAgent

        Well you are pretty much agreeing with me Archie and confirming Z is a waste of money now.

        I would agree that OTM is not yet ready to be a challenge RM, so in the interim, until it is, I advertise on both and I have two very different products that I can present to prospective sellers as another reason to choose us and you know what; they love it.

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        1. Archie

          Referring to the article, I would hasten to remind you:

          The bank’s research says that Rightmove has one million listed properties, Zoopla has 650,000 and OnTheMarket 350,000.


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  4. Fred Jones

    Get real: with Zoopla having near double the property than OTM why would anyone look more to OTM, The only thing anyone needs to worry about is the power of Rightmove and the cost agent have to bare using them!

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    1. RealAgent

      Double the property? What double the new instructions coming to the market? Show me that stat Fred coz it ain’t happening round my way??

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    2. Paul

      Not double actually.

      OTM doesn’t need 300,000 properties off them to overtake them either, they need 150,001.  Not bad for an 8 week old business up against the number 2 portal that been in the game a long time!

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  5. Fred Jones

    The big battle seems to be OTM trying to oust Zoopla:
    With their brilliant idea of creating a cheaper market for agent who are already paying huge amounts, the only thing that OTM have succeeded in doing is to increase the size of the real monster Rightmove.
    Agents who were on both Rightmove and Zoopla had a 100% exposure, with the power of OTM for those agents who joined them now only have 2/3rd exposure.
    So well done OTM

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    1. Property Pundit

      As you don’t seem to comprehend the mutual aspect of OTM, it’s clear you are not an agent. Why are you commenting on this?

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  6. Gump

    Why don’t we bite the big one and all drop RM? I would be up for it as I’m sure most of you would.

    It’s the only way OTM will grow, the problem is we have offer options, if we take those options away, you are left with no choice and when you are left with no choice where to look for property then……well…….you have no choice. Win

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    1. Archie

      With Rightmove generating such an impressive volume of enquiries and leads to my company, I will never drop it.  That would not make good business sense. I am also minded that most home sellers expect their property to be featured with Rightmove.

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      1. Gump

        Of course it would would make good business sense. Sellers want their properties listed on RM because we have told them that for years. When they are told that has now changed and 80% of UK Estate Agents now list solely with OTM ask yourself this question…..where would you want your property to be shown?

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        1. Archie

          The problem is that home sellers don’t just listen to what we tell them anymore.  The internet has empowered prospective sellers like never before.  Prospective sellers are well-versed with the success and ‘might’ of Rightmove and want to see their property advertise within it.

          In my opinion Zoopla also has great value.  Perhaps a site not visited as much for home hunting, but certainly a web site regularly visited by those seeking information about ‘current values’.  I am not saying I agree with the ‘current values’ format either yet I know that many a prospective home seller does use this Zoopla tool.

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          1. Gump

            You appear to be missing my point, yes, many people are well-versed with the success and indeed the might of RM, but not of they lose approx 80% of their stock overnight.

            Collectively we have that might, the problem is we are not flexing it as well as we could be.


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      2. Property Pundit

        Tail wagging the dog Archie?

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      3. Robin

        Goodness me, Archie – you seem to have completely given up your own business decision making process then.  If you MUST advertise with RM and you don’t even recognise that there are choices available, then your future is downhill all the way from here.

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  7. B6RKY

    With the 2 month ‘anniversary’ of OTM fast approaching it will be interesting to see if it has gained another 100 Z agents as it did after 1 month. However even gaining just 100 a month means we are all (OTM members included) now in for some serious RM shafting over the next few years. It would also be a very long time before OTM became No.2 Portal if the swing was just 200 per month. If you’ve not already left Z I fail to see what has happened during the last 2 months to encourage you to move now?

    I wonder whether OTM have a plan B to entice a larger swing. Getting rid of the One other portal rule is surely the way?

    I dont mind advertising on 3 portals short term to make it viable long term. Unfortunately, at this moment, OTM will not allow me to decide where to spend my money which I find patronising and odd, and potentially costly for everyone.

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    1. wilko

      “I wonder whether OTM have a plan B to entice a larger swing”

      Yep, what about buying out Zoopla?

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      1. smile please

        Would be fantastic but cant see how they could afford it.

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      2. Digital Expert

        2 months after launch buying out a £1bn company?

        Ahahahaha. I have to assume that’s a joke!

        I’m pretty sure budget for advertising is running out, let alone the capital to buy out a FTSE 250 company.

        I think the perception of the strength and worth of OTM is a tad over-inflated in some circles.

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        1. RealAgent

          I probably have to agree but to be fair DE, its getting cheaper by the day!!

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        2. Paul H

          “2 months after launch buying out a £1bn company?”….When/where did Wilko say anything about spending £1b to buy out Zoopla. OTM has already bought 25% of Zoopla has it not and how much did that cost?

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          1. Digital Expert

            No, OTM has not bought 25% of Zoopla! Unless Ian has been gobbling up shares without telling you lot – he can certainly afford it! 🙂

            Do you know something we don’t?

            Z was valued by the city, taking into account the ‘risk’ of OTM (and it hasn’t faired as well as the city thought it would – it’s whole business model is based around recruiting 100 branches a week from launch. I don’t think it’s recruited a 100 in total since launch) at £1bn.

            With the return agents are seeing, public knowledge about OTM, usage and apathy in general toward it the perceived value you’ve put on OTM of £250m is pretty spectacularly optimistic.

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            1. Paul H

              “No, OTM has not bought 25% of Zoopla!”… I don’t mean ACTUALLY buying the shares, that would be silly, I mean OTM has wiped out roughly 25% of Zoopla’s customer base, in other words eaten into 25% of Zoopla, although saying that Z has lost roughly 25% of its share value from its peak of August last year.

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              1. Digital Expert

                Yeah, I get that.

                I think your mistaking % of customer base for % of worth, though. I would suggest Z’s branding alone is worth more than OTM as a business, let alone everything else it does.

                I wouldn’t even want to guess at the worth of RM’s brand.

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                1. Paul H

                  DE, What a tangent this has gone off to!!

                  Don’t worry I know how companies are valued, I think what Wilko was trying to say (and i’ll happily stand corrected if i’m wrong) is that by agents moving their listings from Z to OTM, OTM (and their member agents) are in effect buying out Zoopla.



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                  1. Digital Expert

                    I loves me a tangent! 🙂

                    I think that is what Wilko is getting at, but he’s incorrect. I don’t believe it has made a blind bit of difference to their business!

                    If consumers want to see everything available to buy or rent, they still can find everything on the same two sites as this time last year.

                    Perceived value (consumer), actual value (revenue, branding, traffic, leads sent) has been unaffected for Z and increased for RM.

                    Not sure that’s what I would call a success for OTM, or them buying their ‘worth’!


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  8. Paul H

    Zoopla will now never be able to close that gap with Rightmove, not only are they mortally wounded but theyve anlianated their former advertisers to such an extent that they will mostly never go back to Zoopla.


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    1. EHenderson

      I think most agents will take a cold bath and do what is right for their business, rather than what a highly charged minority say.

      Listening to these people is what has created this mess. Maybe soon they will accept that although a fine idea, the whole approach has been misguided.

      Oh, and ‘mortally wounded’, really?

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      1. wilko

        “Oh, and ‘mortally wounded’, really?”

        Tell us Ed, How will Zoopla gain new advertisers and income to over the next 6 months, having found themselves with 35% less stock than RM (pretty much “overnight”) ????.

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      2. RealAgent

        Yes mortally wounded, what would you call all the desperate attacks on OTM? the actions of a company confident about their business prospects??! Did I not read on here that another one of the Zoopla top staff has just jumped ship and gone to work for Ravensworth?

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  9. B6RKY

    Gump OTM agents have spoken and taken the easy (and some say pointless) option of dropping Z.

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    1. Gump

      The single most stupid idea so far this year I feel. Lets break the duopoly by strengthening the number 1 portal O_o

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  10. wilko

    Here are todays 3 reasons (could have listed more) from the article showing why an agent owned portal must succeed.

    “Rightmove could deliver five years of 10% annual growth”

    ““both have highly attractive valuation tools”

    Rightmove has “pricing power”.

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    1. Property Pundit

      Exactly! At what point do all these die hard RM / anti OTM agents decide enough really is enough. Are you really going to continue to support RM’s sheer arrogance by treating YOU as a cash cow?

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  11. Trevor Gillham

    Let’s face it, RM could say to agents the minimum monthly spend is £1500+vat per branch and you would still subscribe, you have to, you are stuck. I cant stand RM but you have to admire their business model it’s awesome!!

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    1. wilko

      “you would still subscribe, you have to, you are stuck”……….At least OTM is in situ. and working so offers an  alternative  at a target cost of £250 per month (target)………It is my hope and belief that when Rm (min 10% increases year on year?) charges £1500 per branch – people will take a more serious look at moving to OTM to save £15,000 pa. If you have a small chain of say 5 branches you are looking at saving £75,000 p/a and when countrywide are looking to improve their bottom line to their shareholders they could be looking at an annual saving of around £19.5 million….yes £19.5 million. based on your £1500 p/m  scenario. Countrywide will add their weight to OTM (when they have fulfilled their obligations to the stock market) and then there will be a major game shift……you’ll see.

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      1. smile please


        Hate to pull you up on it but Countrywide will never subscribe to OTM unless it really is number 1 portal. They pay circa £100 per branch for the top tier membership.

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  12. GPL

    My view as an OnTheMarket member having dumped Zoopla, it’s clear that our business can live without Zoopla so I think the time is already over for talking about OTM versus Zoopla. We have already demonstrated that we don’t need Zoopla.

    I hear and read all the comments re Rightmove being strengthed by agents dumping Zoopla and retaining Rightmove however it was clear that many UK Estate Agents had to see real proof of a take-up to OTM and that it could provide a genuine alternative to The Duopoly.

    From where I am sitting just now, as a member of OnTheMarket and Rightmove I’m looking for the remaining UK Estate Agents to start/complete moving across to OnTheMarket by Summer this year. If the majority don’t then it seems that a large proportion of the UK Estate Agency industry has little interest in the future of our business which in advertising terms only does require an Online Property Portal to provide an Advertising Service.

    It is hard to believe that UK Estate Agency Owners are content sleepwalking our industry into an irreversable situation whereby Rightmove, an Online Service Provider, will effectively run/control the marketing of our property stock… in reality it already does. The latest MorStan Rightmove Report demonstrates precisely why we must move our stock away from Rightmove and as MS quote “buyers follow property”.

    It is time to set a date to dump Rightmove and focus on that. Zoopla will fall however that was never the aim as they were No 2. All I and many thousands of other UK Estate Agents want is an Online Property Portal Advertiser that serves our industry first… at present we serve Rightmove and it serves itself .

    The RM tied corporates sold out already by tying in longterm to Rightmove however they are the minority in our industry, they have a different agenda. It does remain in the hands of the majority of the UK Estate Agency Industry to change the future of our business in terms of the simple process of which Online Property Advertising Portal we select.

    OnTheMarket has already proved in 2 months that it can deliver a real Online Advertising alternative to The Duopoly… the only question is do we have the courage to fully support it… and that question goes out to the real property professionals in our industry… we can ignore the obvious alternative agenda non estate agents that appear on here like the contents of a badly flushing toilet!

    So… when do we ditch Rightmove?



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    1. MF

      Excellent post. And spot on.

      Why is it so difficult for agents to unite and flex their muscle? Do we need a Trade Union perhaps?  RM & Z could be shut down overnight: we just de-list our properties TOGETHER …

      Of course the public will follow the property – unlike us, they really do have no choice!

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  13. Eric Walker

    A duopoly smashed or a monopoly created? OTM has gained traction but I sincerely believe the ‘one other portal’ rule is holding them back. Let agents list where they wish and then they may drop the portal which provides worst value for money.  OTM is a lovely site, but should succeed on its merits, not on restrictions.

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    1. Paul H

      “OTM is a lovely site, but should succeed on its merits, not on restrictions.”…But OTM is succeeding ‘on it’s merits’ as an agent owned portal. 

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  14. Harree

    As I’ve said before … the best recruiting tool AM have would be to trumpet genuine EA success stories about valuation leads generated and sales achieved through OTM. But no … all we get is AM disputing the independent Hitwise visitor figures quoted by Z without backing up their ridiculous claim of 2 million unique visitors by the end of February. If all AM can shout is “that’s not true” it tells me there is very little real positive news to shout about. AM should perhaps think about adding RealAgent to their PR team as his clients “just lurrrv” OTM and “all serious buyers” flood to it, not forgetting that everyone at the dinner parties he attends has heard of it and would most definitely use it. All absolutely true of course …

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    1. Property Pundit

      Harree, your posts are now just vacuous, repetitive and tedious and add NOTHING to this debate. Can’t you just go and spend your time on mailonline, absolutely loads of things to comment on there.

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      1. Harree

        Property Pundit: “your posts are now just vacuous, repetitive and tedious ” Sums up your own posts perfectly. Well done.

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    2. RealAgent

      I asked you three times last week Harree if you wanted to publish your Zoopla and RM leads on your best property and I will publish my OTM and RM ones so how about it we can demonstrate to everyone where it is right now, two months on?!


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      1. Harree

        RealAgent – what would your suggestion prove or disprove? It is of total irrelevance in the bigger issue of OTM’s actual daily visitor figures. Why don’t AM just provide that information + back up their 2 million unique visitor claim. Answer that.

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        1. RealAgent

          We deal with real world Harree don’t we, you’ve told me that you are leaping ahead in your market and Z is helping you do it. Fine, its really as simple as this you publish your figures regarding just one property, I will mine. Come on what are you scared of, in theory Z are going to be higher so we will have established a benchmark. The national picture is only as relevant as what it means to agents. I don’t understand why your ducking this and nor does anyone else on this site…… Just agree surely you want a chance to back up your posturing, I’m giving it to you……..

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          1. Harree

            Me ducking?  The biggest duckers of all are AM and their refusal to back up their 2 million uniques with facts. Your silly proposal is a total irrelevance to anything. How old are you?

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            1. RealAgent

              Yes you are ducking, everyone can see you are!

              Tell me why is it a silly proposal? We are comparing responses from Z to RM and OTM to RM in our respective markets. As you seem hung up on the z stats this will show everyone here that Z is so far ahead of OTM and so much closer to RM than OTM is likely to be. So I really don’t understand what your problem is with it?!

              Is there a reason you don’t want to just publish two figures?

              You can show everyone what a loss Z is to their market and what a mistake OTM was, come on Harree this is the chance to prove everything you’ve said?!


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  15. Harree

    Property Pundit … here are your splendid contributions to today’s debate …. “I’ll leave it to bona fide agents to deal with the tediousness of your post. Why do you waste your time here, haven’t you got facebook or twitter? Maybe snapchat is more you.” …. “As you don’t seem to comprehend the mutual aspect of OTM, it’s clear you are not an agent. Why are you commenting on this?” ….. “Tail wagging the dog Archie?” ….. “Exactly! At what point do all these die hard RM / anti OTM agents decide enough really is enough. Are you really going to continue to support RM’s sheer arrogance by treating YOU as a cash cow?” …..  “Harree, your posts are now just vacuous, repetitive and tedious and add NOTHING to this debate. Can’t you just go and spend your time on mailonline, absolutely loads of things to comment on there.”  May I suggest that if this is all your debating skills amount to you go back to the school yard from whence you came. Your posts are now just vacuous, repetitive and tedious.

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    1. Property Pundit

      Wow, Harree when do you find time to do any real work? Still avoiding RealAgent’s question I see but then you’d actually have to be a REAL AGENT to be able to do so wouldn’t you?

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      1. Harree

        What a pathetic person you sound. ANOTHER VACUOUS POST.

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  16. Paul

    What is needed to become the Number 2 portal?

    150,001 properties taken from Zoopla and added OTM.

    That is what is needed.  When that is completed, what argument do the anti OTM brigade have left?

    350,0000 carried right now, 8 weeks in.

    54% of Zoopla’s total.

    At that tipping point, with OTM number 2 and carrying 65% of what RM carry, what happens if the plug is pulled on RM?

    However, as with everything that has been delivered so far, the recruitment will continue as the OTM position as the number 2 portal, is used to recruit those that still had doubts and OTM will further push ahead of Zoopla.

    And then, when the time is right, RM is dropped and the strategy is complete.

    Even the most hardened anti OTM agents must be able to see the progress that has been made in such a short space of time and the impact it has had.  This isn’t just Pro OTM people saying it either.

    As I have said before, forget all of the figures about hits etc, OTM has made an impact and has taken share.  It will continue to do so and will become the number 2 portal, but only if AGENTS make it happen, nothing more nothing less.

    RM being No1 and strengthened is of no relevance, what’s new, they were number 1 and in the strongest position already?!

    It’s like saying we have just added another Tsar bomb on the plane so we are even stronger now, when the 1st one was going to wipe a whole continent anyway!!!

    Nothing will break OTM apart from Agents.

    Every new branch adds properties to OTM and will reduce Zoopla’s.

    Agents hold the key (literally!) to this and agents have got it to where it is so far.

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  17. TheCountryAgent

    This comment is a bit late in the day and I get the feeling I will get shot down over this.  It has occurred to me that if agents who are listed on RM and OM want to be rid of RM then they will have to decide to leave it.

    My suggestion is that these agents should commit, for 6 months, the fees they would have paid to RM to an OM ‘war chest’.  This would give OM in excess of £20million to advertise OM at the ‘number 1 property website’.

    I am with OM and RM.

    I’ve just put my flack jacket on…..

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    1. smile please


      Not saying you are right but if there were more conversations / plans along that theme i think you will find a large take up of agents that are yet to commit.

      One of the reasons i and many others have not committed is that there seems very little planning to topple RM other than grow a membership base and hope for the best.

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  18. MarkRowe

    Debating when we (OM Member agents) are going to drop RM isn’t going to be solved (with all due respect) on the property eye’s comment section, I’m pretty sure of that – it’s going to take a much larger market share for us to take that action.
    So just a quick message to the ‘anti OM’ brigade. Are you waiting for us to dump either RM or Z completely before you take the plunge and join us?
    I’ve been running my estate agency since 2007 and have been an agent for 16 years and I really don’t understand why you are so afraid, us agents are thick skinned and have always made our own decisions, we decide where to advertise, we decide if we put our money into a certain software that we think will give us a good return on our investment, the list is endless… Stop thinking of RM or Z as the almighty.
    Come on board! Stick with the one portal that is delivering the leads (whether it be RM or Z) for the time being. As well as this, support an agent owned portal (OM) until it reaches the point of us ALL being able to switch off the last remaining portal. The concept really is that simple. RM have a massive budget so you may say that they will combat this by doing online sales etc etc etc, just let RM do whatever they want to do – they’ve had the exact same tactic since they started anyway so no change there!

    I’ve said it before but perhaps it’s nice to keep the gate open on this… Even if you’ve been against OM since the start, ALL the current OM members will still welcome you with open arms if you decide to change your mind and join, this really is ‘the more the merrier!’ I personally couldn’t give two sh*ts what people think of me and the pro comments I make and if it was to all go wrong I’ve literally lost nothing – but at least I’ve tried! (yes that sounds corny, but it’s true!).
    I’d like to ask the question to the anti-brigade… What do you think the worst is that could happen if you joined OM and retained either Z or RM until the time was right to have just one agent owned portal? I can think of the answer – ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
    What’s the best that could happen? We have our own portal that controls advertising costs, doesn’t have third party advertisers pushing their mortgage advice right next to our property listings and DOESN’T PROVIDE STUPID VALUATION TOOLS THAT ARE INACCURATE AND MISLEAD THE PUBLIC.

    BUYERS FOLLOW WHERE THE PROPERTY IS and at the moment the majority is with RM & Z, they hold the power! But it can easily be taken away from them as it is OUR stock. Oh and please don’t start with ‘it’s not our stock’, I mean it in terms of it’s our agreements in place, we won the business and it’s our money that went into attracting sellers in the first place, not RM’s or Z’s!

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  19. B6RKY

    MarkRowe “us agents are thick skinned and have always made our own decisions, we decide where to advertise,” Unfortunately that is no longer true in any OTM members case. You do not have the choice to decide where to advertise once you have joined. OTM has played into the hands of RM with its one portal rule. Ask any none OTM member if they would be willing to join if they were able to retain RM and Z and I believe that a fair number would have joined already. If OTM had offered a discount, say £125 per month for the first year (bearing in mind Z was FREE for at least 3 years as it built its membership from scratch) I believe they might have doubled membership immediately. You get a sense that somebody was being greedy from day one. And in the Portal game its all about the numbers. And if the numbers don’t add up it will fail which will ultimately cost us all.

    “we decide where to advertise,” Hmmm…..once you join OTM your monthly fee then also gets spent on advertising luxuries like Countrylife. Would most OTM agents willingly use their budget to advertise here?

    It is not too late for people a lot cleverer than me to recognise the obvious flaws in the OTM masterplan and remedy them now. Strength in numbers can make this work- blind, unquestioning optimism won’t!!

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    1. Ric

      “You dont have the choice where to advertise when you join OTM”

      ……….however you know that before you join OTM and have a choice whether to join for that reason or not.

      OTM membership is optional last time I checked.

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  20. JAM01

    RM as a brand is as entrenched in the mindset of buyers in the same way as Apple and Facebook are. Others can launch, be great ideas, even provide a better product or service but playing catch up to disrupt a proven, established brand that continues to evolve and provide what the customer (in this case the buyers despite it being the agents that foot the bill) means that others will always be playing for 2nd. OTM may get to second place, but until the agents turn off RM, they will never overcome it as being the #1. Agents will have to keep on advertising on it, the fees will keep going up and OTM will therefore have failed in its original aim, getting fees down for agents and making it more cost effective all round. This isn’t going to happen I am afraid. Nice try…but no cigar.

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    1. Robert May

      Morning Jam, the best reply to your post could come from Peebee. He has been shown stuff that allows RM and Zoopla to do their thing but which could in the hands of AM be the strategic advantage OTM is lacking to attract buy in and membership. You more than most on here ought know  the advantages of technology over a numerically dominant force. You also understand the benefits of hearts and minds and will also have an inkling how effective a few highly disciplined, experienced and fearless folk can be. Stick that little lot together and you will understand why some people believe good things can happen. Peebee has been given a press pass and although he can’t say what he has seen he can say whether  OTM should surrender or treat themselves to some tech!

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      1. Ric

        Oh just leak it Peebee, get the info out there to OTM! or tell me “in confidence” or rather “with confidence” that I will let it slip out by accident 😉

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        1. Paul H

          Hey Robert, you should let Ric have a gandertoo. I had a look a few weeks back and from what I can see it looks to be a good deffirintiator and USP compared to the other portals.

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          1. Robert May

            I think the USP has to be that what I am putting together isn’t a portal Paul! It is a sortal! A variable grade sieve  that will give Ros Renshaw the  ‘see all’ overview she demands and allows a  detailed veracious search that will identify a single property from the millions currently  For Sale or To Let.

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        2. PeeBee

          Sorry, Ric – if I told you, I’d have to kill you afterwards! ;o)

          That being said, I fully concur with what Paul H has said about Robert’s “stuff” having the potential to differentiate one portal from a pack of also-rans.

          I’ve read the arguments about the numbers, and it is correct that OTM will not need “300000” properties to become the No. 2 portal – however I would suggest that “150001” is also a tad wide of the mark, as NOT ALL of those leaving one of the main portals to join will come off Z.  Suggest the figure be nearer 200,000 – which equates to another 2,300 branches approximately (based roughly upon the current membership numbers against stock average).

          Of course, the next tranche of Members may well have less stock per branch. If the average drops to 50 units per branch – then you’re looking at 4000 branches – and we have to acknowledge that it took Mr Springett (and later his team of local Reps) a year-and-a-bit to amass that critical number – but to be frank it was pretty much all low-hanging fruit.

          The REAL graft is NOW – and it ain’t going to get any easier without (enter a word between “some” and “mahoosive”…) giving and taking – and HAVING A REAL USP to make it compelling to join.  OTM is ‘out there’ now for everyone to judge on its’ merits – the competitors’ dirty tricks campaign is turned up to DEFCON 2 – should the Membership not be rising at a higher rate than it did pre-launch?

          OLD support has got OTM where it is.  NEW support is vital to carry it forward, onward and upward.

          In response to Robert’s last sentence – one way or another, whether or not they think he has “the answer” – OTM CANNOT surrender at this point, and in my opinion (and I’m sure I’m not as ‘unique’ in this respect as I often admit to being…) need to do SOMETHING.  Soon.

          “Interesting times” ahead for us all…

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        3. Robert May

          Hello Ric,  things are a little in the air at the moment, the initial site tests, on going feed back and tweaks mean that things are shifting about a bit, some days things work  then they get switched off. If you  are tolerant of things  deliberately not working you can have a look. Contact me via Ros.
          What is interesting is that of all the test invitations sent out it is  obvious the  interested early adopters are all Agents Mutual members! There must be something in the psyche!

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          1. Ric

            I shall email Ros in the morning “mums he word” as well.

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            1. Robert May

              Good morning Ric, you have made my day! I am looking forward to the email.  Hopefully you will read this before emailing.   It would be too easy to just receive an email and for me to get in contact with you. How about putting my system to the test?  If I can’t find out who you are my system doesn’t work.
              Let me know your position within the firm- Principal, MD, manager, negotiator etc. Pick out one sole agency instruction. Then give me an area and a couple of features unique to that property  have been mentioned  in  the  internet presence of your firm, not just the property portals.   It doesn’t matter what it is, just a unique feature or selling point of one of your properties. I won’t reply via Ros I will contact you in the same way any new internet enquiry would contact your firm  about  a single property on your books.

              Please ask Ros to  email something along the lines of, Ric is the  xyz of/in a x office firm in xxxtown, one of his properties has a (green oak summer room and sea views) Which property is it and who is Ric?  I will start the clock when I receive an email from Ros. Let’s see how long it takes to pick out 1 needle from 4,800 haystacks?  (I can’t claim 19,600 I think you are Agents Mutual and almost certain are not a passive intermediary) Should be a fun test!
              I do have some server tweaks pre planned for 9 am so your best chance to  time test me is then!

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              1. Robert May

                don’t worry about the first bit you are the co owner of an independant agent, you started in the industry in 1992  (corporate agency) and  your sone will be 10 this year. I am not a weird stalker  (or the Rainman smile) I have just used the system to find a single post you typed in  August 2011.

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                1. Ric

                  Is that you crouching down in a car in the car park opposite my office….. leave me alone 😉

                  Email sent, happy for Ros to share my email address with you, I have no problems with that.

                  Good luck.

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  21. Ric

    Robert, nice to put a voice to the name earlier and hear the emotion behind the concept! EXSHELLONT dare I say it is too!

    Looking forward to seeing it now, so I can comment further.

    Pretty much ALL of what you said hits many a cord with me, so I do hope if this transforms into a tool which could be a real differentiator. Talk soon and again thanks.

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    1. Robert May

      Hello  Ric, I am very grateful  for  both your attention and time this morning. It takes a big leap of faith to let a service supplier loose on your business with  new ideas and concepts especially  ideas that challenge the status quo.

      Hopefully you will be excited by the vision and once you have a set up and stable version you will  understand the full power and impact of what is being built.

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