Zoopla says OTM has lost 25% of traffic within a week

| Rosalind Renshaw

Zoopla has returned to the attack on OnTheMarket, sending out Hitwise data apparently showing traffic to OTM fell last week by 25%.

Zoopla described OTM as struggling “to find an audience”.

However, yesterday evening Ian Springett, chief executive of OnTheMarket.com, responded, saying: “Zoopla’s concerns about the growth of OnTheMarket.com at their expense are apparently increasing.

“The traffic figures circulated by Zoopla are inaccurate and we stand by every figure we have previously quoted.

“On March 6 and 7 we passed the two million mark of unique users.

“Contrary to Zoopla’s claims, the traffic levels have remained buoyant throughout March.

“The results of our multi-million pound marketing campaign are continuing to emerge and the property-seeking public are appreciating the faster, cleaner, fresher search experience which OnTheMarket.com offers.

“Ultimately, the property-seeking public and the agents themselves will decide over time which portals deliver the most value. We remain confident in becoming the number two portal by January 2016.”

According to the Hitwise figures sent out by Zoopla, traffic last week to Zoopla was up 4% and to Rightmove up 2%.

Zoopla said that the figures show traffic to OTM has been falling steadily for the past few days, following the end of its six-week launch marketing campaign.

Two months since its launch, far from closing in on market leaders, Zoopla said the gap is now widening.

Zoopla said its own audience “remains 21 times larger than that of OTM, handing a significant advantage to those agents that have stuck with the market leaders”.

Zoopla’s press release continues: “Perhaps more troubling for OTM is the apparent lack of engagement by those visiting its website, with an average of only 1.5 pages viewed per visit last week versus 7.1 on Zoopla, according to Hitwise.

“ZPG’s total consumer engagement last week was nearly 100 times that of OTM with 21 times more visits and almost five times more content viewed per visit.

“Lawrence Hall of ZPG said: ‘We are data and results driven and will leave others to make wild and unsubstantiated claims and promises.

‘It certainly appears that over the past couple of weeks things have gone from bad to worse for OTM with traffic falling notably from an already low base and very low engagement levels per visit.

‘Two months in and the data shows clearly that OTM is a very expensive and ineffective marketing channel at this point.

‘Every day that OTM restricts its members from spending their marketing budgets freely those agents are spending far more and getting far less than they should.

‘That makes those businesses less efficient and competitive and the longer that OTM takes to act in removing the marketing restrictions placed on its members, the greater the damage it is causing to those businesses and the bigger the advantage it is handing to their competitors.’”

Below are the Hitwise charts supplied by Zoopla

zoopla Weekly Audience Hitwise

zoopla Traffic Stats we 22 March Hitwise

 

 

 

 

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91 Comments

  1. Paul H
    March 25, 2015 at 07:09

    It’s Hitwise Wednesday…if anything Zoopla are consistent!!

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    1. Gump
      March 25, 2015 at 08:26

      Somebody somewhere is definitely telling porkies, now is it Z or Otm, find out next week on the next episode of BS

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  2. GPL
    March 25, 2015 at 07:11

    Zzzzzzzzzoopla!

    Really?…. here we go again.

    PRESS RELEASE from GPL…. My company ditched Zoopla 2 months ago…. no loss of business whatsoever. End of!

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    1. danny
      March 25, 2015 at 07:59

      Ok .. Who had 0711 in the “how long before GPL tells us dropping Zoopla had no effect on his business ” sweep ? You previously mentioned that you been off Zoopla for a lot longer than two months GPL , did you rejoin and then come back off ?

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      1. GPL
        March 25, 2015 at 09:53

        Danny… when you have proved you are an Estate Agent then I can respond.. otherwise keep singing that song….. oooooaaaah Danny Boooooy

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        1. 1stTimeBuyer
          March 25, 2015 at 10:00

          Please point me to the terms and conditions of this website where it says, only if you are an active estate agent are you allowed to comment.  Typical of you GPL, trying to restrict freedom to do as people wish – are you on the agents mutual board or something???!

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          1. GPL
            March 25, 2015 at 11:50

            Ah?….. the inexperienced 1sttimebuyer… I can hear that bleating noise…. lambing time again.

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        2. danny
          March 26, 2015 at 07:59

          GPL.. I’ve been through my credentials 6 or 7 times on here. Unless you prove to me your not a carrot, I’m going to assume your a carrot, and do you still beat your wife ?

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    2. HarryN
      March 25, 2015 at 08:06

      I remember that too danny. GPL has been ranting on for months that he’s lived just fine without Zoopla.

      Member of OTM staff by any chance GPL (although to be fair, all 5000 member agents are by extension Ian Springett’s employees now)?

       

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      1. GPL
        March 25, 2015 at 09:58

        HarryN… related to Danny?

        Again, when you can prove you are an estate agent I can share my near 30 Years experience as an estate agent…. listen & learn HarryN…. listen & learn!

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  3. HarryN
    March 25, 2015 at 07:16

    The public will decide. Not agents.

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    1. Archie
      March 25, 2015 at 10:36

      Quite right HarryN.  And they are.  These these Hitwise figures confirm that Rightmove and Zoopla remain the popular choice for home hunters.

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      1. Robert May
        March 25, 2015 at 12:56

        Really? How many of the 9.993 million either bought or rented as a result of having a look? Even crediting every single  sale or  new tenancy to a Zoopla introduction 98.56% of these visit were what exactly? repeat visits from the same punters? If that is the case every purchaser and  new tenant is finding reason to go back and back and back to Zoopla 70 times!!!  You might buy that (quite literally) I don’t.

         

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  4. Robert May
    March 25, 2015 at 07:23

    Back in June last year I  posted that election  years are tough in Agency. The Daffs are out, the budget done but the election now dominates the news. Nothing is going to happen much till May 6th.  If Zoopla  actually understood agency  they wouldn’t be making themselves look quite so silly.

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    1. smile please
      March 25, 2015 at 07:52

      Robert we all be in the business long enough to know elections slow the market but I’m puzzled why you are having a pop at Z about this?

       

       

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      1. Robert May
        March 25, 2015 at 08:41

        I am not having a pop at Zoopla, I am having a pop at the fact they have twisted the expected decrease in activity in another OTM bashing story. I am simply tired of the marketing department who pump out  nothingness that possibly makes great, hard hitting  points to them but to everyone else it is an ‘And?’ story but which demands a response from AM. To his credit and that of AM Ian just keeps returning everything served at him.
        There is nothing to be gained from Zoopla  constantly attacking Agents Mutual and this  story is the symptom of a monumental  own goal by the  Zoopla executive.
        Possibly I could have made the point differently by saying that even if OTM were turned off today, the Agents Mutual members have enough applicants registered to carry on selling with or without either  dominant portal indefinitely. The Industry is changed.

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        1. ukpropmaster
          March 25, 2015 at 08:52

          Zoopla stock up 5%+ since they put this release out yesterday.  “There is nothing to be gained…”  Clearly a lot of someones disagree with you.

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          1. Robert May
            March 25, 2015 at 09:12

            Are you able to tell me what that 5% is? is the 5% more properties from the same  number of agents? An increased number of properties from a reduced number of agents or a reduced number of properties from an increased number of agents? Only the last scenario  is increased revenue for Zoopla.  Moving on the the net effect for the selling public.  What is the expected result of the increase in stock and when?

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            1. ukpropmaster
              March 25, 2015 at 09:21

              Their stock price in the public markets. These releases are obviously not really targeted at agents (particularly not those that have already left), but are put out to show their investors that OTM is not working and is not gaining steam.  And if my hunch is correct and that is their motivation, they have been pretty successful.

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              1. Robert May
                March 25, 2015 at 10:47

                Sorry for the mis- understanding, the word stock has only one meaning to my Agent’s brain!

                The whole stocks and shares, crowdfunding game is a different industry.   In that world truth , honesty and integrity are  like cousins 3 times removed, they exist but you don’t get to see them every day!

                 

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                1. GPL
                  March 25, 2015 at 11:59

                  £1.70 something last I saw for Zoopla?… versus Rightmove at £29 something?… Zoopla embarrassingly seem to hold the Portal Petty Cash for Rightmove… and the estate agency members of Hikemove hold the foundations of the towering Property Portal that is Hikemove… little cracks & crumbling will appear… keep watching. How Chief Petty Officer Chesterman must be gazing forward looking at all those icebergs!… all that hot air he spouts will melt some of them?… sadly, not all. Lifeboat ready CPO Chesterman… head for that wealthy retirement island that is on that horizon or you may have to swim for it when they chuck you overboard.

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    2. HarryN
      March 25, 2015 at 08:07

      Zoopla and RM traffic both up 4% & 2%, OTM down 25%.

      Robert, are you saying that OTM’s drop is market related?!

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      1. Robert May
        March 25, 2015 at 08:51

        OTM is more like a delicatessen than a supermarket, if it isn’t the season for fresh cut English Asparagus  business won’t be so brisk. No surprises there, it is such a known fact that Smile  is  curious why I am  puzzled by Zoopla not knowing that.
        As I have claimed before hits page views and time on site are only so loosely connected to the number of properties sold they can be dismissed as  anything at all meaningful. KNC  numbers; all very impressive to those who can see them!

        I am testing at the moment, for every bona fide  accounted for page view by  all the testers there are 3 page views from around the globe that are traffic but  absolutely meaningless nothing.

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        1. EHenderson
          March 25, 2015 at 09:10

          Sorry to say this Robert, but this post is complete tosh.

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          1. PeeBee
            March 25, 2015 at 09:23

            EHenderson – come on… that’s WAAAY too vague – at least give Mr May something of substance to respond to.

            Or do you have nothing to offer?

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          2. Robert May
            March 25, 2015 at 11:03

            You don’t have to apologise but you do have to appreciate I have been  in where these numbers  get  churned out and know more than a little bit of detail about them.
            I have a site in beta , 3 times the number of actual page views are  interrogations  from Google, China, India, Horsham, Reading, Exeter, Liverpool and Derby.
            If you are happy  too coo at really big numbers generated  by dynamic IP addresses  please  carry on, it is your money to spend how you like  but  please don’t suggest I am talking tosh until you can correlate the number of claimed hits, page views and time on site with the number of completions and tenancies.
            I know for a fact that >600 hits on  both Rightmove  and Zoopla in the past week were me doing testing.

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            1. Ric
              March 25, 2015 at 15:06

              I can now FULLY understand why taking some notice of what Robert has to say is a good idea…..

              you don’t have to agree with anyone on here, as I don’t agree with many BUT have an hour chat with this chap and you understand the number churning that bit more.

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              1. PeeBee
                March 25, 2015 at 17:17

                AN HOUR???

                You flippin’ lightweight…! ;o)

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                1. Robert May
                  March 25, 2015 at 20:58

                  Sorry, I am seeing about doing a deal with Audible, they are quite good at abridged versions of long stories!

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                  1. PeeBee
                    March 25, 2015 at 21:44

                    Now then, Mr May – if EVER I set you up to respond with “kettle:pot – add the rest yourself”… THAT was it!

                    Missed your chance BIIIG time, bud! ;o)

                    I’m really just jealous that you’ve got to speak to Ric and I haven’t after all these years.

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                    1. Robert May
                      March 26, 2015 at 06:22

                      04 51. Unlike ALL of my contemporaries I actually enjoy talking to Estate Agents so I am genuinely grateful to anyone who will spare me 1 minute of their time. I found that listening to what people want can be very expensive; a lot of time, effort and resource can be wasted designing and building a system to give customers what they want,  but then don’t buy or subscribe to because it’s not what the want today.  If you listen to customers, understand customers and from that work out what they need it is possible build something that fulfils those needs. Very simple, very obvious!
                      Agents Mutual have built a portal, Ian has built what agents wanted (cue   Woody woodpecker to the dislike button)  AM hasn’t worked out what  it needs. AM itself is what agents need but the focus (in my  opinion) is still on delivering what  you all  want.  The reaction to what I have cobbled together by way of demonstration is not a product demonstration of a software system that will change the industry, I am demonstrating one thing; I know what you need and know how to deliver it. All 4 testers can shoot me down now if they don’t think that correct.
                      (I stuck a time stamp on this post to let ‘the message’ (sic!) have some understanding of what it is like to  struggle with spelling and grammar and the effort required to try to make sense on a written business to business platform. Over an hour of effort and I am still not confident this will make sense and all the words I can see are here 0622)

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  5. Property Pundit
    March 25, 2015 at 07:34

    They’re now acting like a cornered rat and beyond parody. Still this will feed the zoopla trolls on here.

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    1. EHenderson
      March 25, 2015 at 09:15

      I’m not sure I agree with you Pundit. As an agent who has stuck away from onthemarket, I want to know how it is performing so I can form a view. It seems to me that there is no verifiable source for any of Mr Springett’s stats, but Zoopla are backing their claims up with independent numbers.

      Also, they (on the market) have been very clear (as have many of the posters on this webiste), that Zoopla is their primary target so I think to say that Zoopla pointing out that on the market is a long way off them – and moving backwards – is an act of desperation, is fairly strong.

      My question is whether on the market continue to sign agents. Certainly the conversations I am having with participating agents are centred around them returning to Zoopla. I am not hearing about any (who have not already made the jump) who post-launch are considering making the jump…

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      1. GPL
        March 25, 2015 at 21:22

        Ah yes… those mysterious EHenderson conversations with participating agents blah blah blah…

        I think your Tosh Talking comment directed at someone earlier in this thread is a razor sharp description of your mysterious conversations in your twilight zone.

        The sad thing is that I know a stellar estate agent by the name of E Henderson… and the one thing I do know is that you are clearly not her… you wouldn’t be qualified to occupy her shadow based on the waffle that you weave on here….

        “conversations with participating agents….” unequivicol nonsense spun by the unremarkable EHenderson versus the Truly Remarkable E Henderson!

        I recline gently and wait to be monumentally underwhelmed by your next gravity shattering “conversations with….. blah, blah, blah… Zzzzzzzz”

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  6. IndAgent
    March 25, 2015 at 07:34

    I wonder if anyone can resist commenting further on this post… Yawn yawn yawn…. Stop this OTM/Zoopla spam! No more comments!

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  7. Ric
    March 25, 2015 at 07:45

    I suspect any increase in Z hits are a touch like a “second glance” you know the one, you walk past the local shop (whatever it is) and the window and building are empty….. so you slow your walk and look back again to see what has happened!

    Any avid Z user near us will have possible clicked on it ten times more than usual of late to see when and if the 90% of stock lost will be reloaded any time soon.

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    1. danny
      March 25, 2015 at 08:02

      I bet your vendors are delighted that all those people curiosity clicking aren’t seeing their property then…

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      1. Ric
        March 25, 2015 at 09:11

        My vendors do not want “curiosity viewers” doh! I now have an increasing number of sellers, who are asking for “no internet” marketing one of which exchanged last week and one sold yesterday.

        Your not still telling people Z will give you 40m time wasters a month are you? just to satisfy your mind that Z actually makes a difference.

        You are funny, using that old chestnut….. do you not tell your clients you go for quality not quantity?

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  8. Jonnie
    March 25, 2015 at 07:57

    Lesson for that bloke from Iproperty that keeps himself feeling fuzzy inside by insisting his dreary website made up of unsold Wimpey stock and little else bans agents (…..noooo, please mate, let us on your site……) you are nothing, you’re not ‘disruptive’ you’re not challenging, breaking moulds and all the normal drivel you boys spout until the Zoopla bods keep talking about you week in week out, when that happens you will know you are really onto something – Jonnie

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  9. ringi
    March 25, 2015 at 08:55

    I am using an agent at present despite them being OTM, as they may be the best agent for the property.    But if they don’t get a sale in the next 2 or 3 weeks, I am likely to move to an agent that uses Zoopla.

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    1. PeeBee
      March 25, 2015 at 09:05

      I simply cannot see ANY rhyme, reason or logic in this post.

      Please explain yourself.

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      1. ukpropmaster
        March 25, 2015 at 09:13

        Perhaps I can help.  ringi probably works for ZPG but wants to throw you off the scent: “I am using an agent at present despite them being OTM, as they may be the best agent for the property.”  But then, ringi wants you to know that the “average customer” puts more value in the advertising qualities of Zoopla than the “best agent for the property” if that agent can’t get to a sale in 2 to 3 weeks. Therefore BEWARE all you OTM agents…if you don’t sell your properties in 2 to 3 weeks all your customers will leave!!!  That about right ringi? 🙂

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    2. Ric
      March 25, 2015 at 09:13

      How long you been selling for ringi?

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    3. Property Pundit
      March 25, 2015 at 12:22

      Trolling at its best!

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  10. PeeBee
    March 25, 2015 at 09:11

    ““Lawrence Hall of ZPG said: ‘We are data and results driven…”

    OF COURSE you’re “DATA driven” – IT IS ALL YOU HAVE.  “Results driven”?  That’s another cookie entirely.  You clearly mean CITY RESULTS, Mr Hall – seeing as a large chunk of your previous customer base of Agents didn’t see sufficient RoI to stay with you…

    “…and will leave others to make wild and unsubstantiated claims and promises.”

    Oh, great – starting WHEN?

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  11. andy halstead
    March 25, 2015 at 09:37

    Does anyone have lead statistics that show the effectiveness of OTM V RM or Z? Early days I know, however the trends would be interesting.

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  12. Propman
    March 25, 2015 at 09:47

    Hats off to OTM for allowing Hall to play his silly little games and getting on with real work! The interesting point to take from this press release is that it is an entire press release aimed at attacking OTM (4% increase in one week is hardly news), rather than explaining how Zoopla are doing… They’re getting more and more worried me thinks.

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  13. agentx
    March 25, 2015 at 09:55

    Just when you think zoopla cant get more desperate, they manage to set their low bar lower. zoopla never produced many quality leads when we were paying them 16k pa. OTM has instantly matched the quantity of leads after a couple of weeks and has now become more productive for a lot less money. Nothing left to discuss really. Goodbye zoopla.

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    1. the message
      March 25, 2015 at 10:43

      agentx, that has to be tosh.

       

      Either, you were paying 16k for tosh, which makes you a fool of a businessman OR

      you are lying about leads quantity. OTM quality might be good, might be very good, I have no idea as aren’t on it, but Quantity…..total tosh. OR

      you work for OTM

      you could give us facts of course. how many branches you “own”, ow many leads Z delivered, how many OTM do etc.

       

      My guess would be you are option 3.

      So run off and let the big boys have a genuine discussion

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  14. Jacqueline Emmerson
    March 25, 2015 at 10:24

    Just out of interest, why would a seller wish to avoid Internet advertising? Is this in the South East where it is much easier to sell a property than in the North East?

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    1. Jonnie
      March 25, 2015 at 18:33

      yes, some clients want their property marketed discreetly without nosey sorts knowing, lots of people will argue their business is nothing without things like RM & Z, in fairness they are probably right and the budget lot are definitely right but agents local contacts, old clients, databases and such things are a goldmine of very good business and down here some of us still use them – Jonne

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  15. the message
    March 25, 2015 at 10:29

    Always humerous how aggressive everybody gets on here.

     

    Lets remember OTM, Z and R are JUST a marketing channel for us all. Yes, they may or may not be very important, but thats what they are. They dont sell the properties, we do. BUT, they do help build our brand exposure, generate specific leads, and also help with the overall halo effect (people phone us direct/pop into shop having seen something online).

    And whether we like it or not, online is important. People love property and spend huge amounts of the day looking at property sites.

    So are the traffic stats important? yes and no. But just like you should be looking at stats for readers of local or national papers, or working out the benefit of any other advertising that you do.

    So what do you get from OTM. I would imagine quality leads, but very few of them. The people that are finding the OTM site have to be (either agents!) or people who have found the site despite the lack of digital links.

    Z and R get huge traffic numbers, but a lot of that is browsing. That brings some general brand benefit to advertisers. They also general lots of leads, only you as an agent know the quality of them.

     

    What the current traffic stats show (and hitwise are used by the digital industry as the standrd benchmark) is that the OTM traffic is low. Its not bad, its exactly where  a start up should be after 8 weeks. I think Springet is doing himself a disservice by denying it, but thats his call. The OT issue is always that members are having to currently pay too much for the service if you look at it from a pure marketing perspective.

    But if agents are prepared to treat the spend as an investment for the future, AND the exclusivity isn’t impacting their current business, then fine, good luck.

    We seem to have on here 3 groupd of people, those generally interested in debate, and the mudslingers from both sides. They are the ones that get very angry, and say things that don’t tie in with statements made a day/week/month ago – Harree, Paul H, GPL etc.

    As to the independents agonising over what to do – good luck. If you do make the move, challenge Springet, dont accept what he says, he is making up some stats, I fear a london bias, I know his staff are earning a lot of money, but if OTM comes off it will be worth it.

    If you stay with the duopoly, good luck. You have a window of opportunity to hurt your competitor, but it might not last for long.

     

    the game is afoot

     

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    1. smile please
      March 25, 2015 at 10:50

      At last a reasoned comment!

      “As to the independents agonising over what to do – good luck. If you do make the move, challenge Springet, dont accept what he says, he is making up some stats, I fear a london bias, I know his staff are earning a lot of money, but if OTM comes off it will be worth it.”

      And this to me is the most important thing which a lot of the pro camps are missing.

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      1. wilko
        March 25, 2015 at 12:49

        Smile  “At last a reasoned comment”….really smile, that sounds ridiculous.

        Surely if all of us otm members challenge Ian and don’t accept what he says,  accuse him of making up stats, and suggest a London bias and round it off by saying he and his staff aren’t worth what they are being paid………..all of 8 weeks after launch wouldn’t that be totally counter productive?…….or is this, as you suggest really the most important thing that we in the pro camps are missing-and should be doing, at this early point?

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        1. smile please
          March 25, 2015 at 13:03

          Wilko, I’m not suggesting an uprising or a coo!

          I think some (not all) do need to question some of the choices made and not follow so blindly.

          We all know the die hards on here that bleed OTM (and are probably reps).

          All this one vote malarkey – why not put it to use, Country life really worth the investment?

          Why not ask him to quantify his figures? – Surely as an investment you want to know a true return? – The Hitwise figures are pretty damming. If he can prove the hits why not just come out with the source of an independent verification company?

          I am not say OTM has started poorly just don’t trust a man that is taking a massive pay packet for at least the next 5 years – Its in his interests to keep you on board. I thought it was a mutual not a dictatorship!

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          1. wilko
            March 25, 2015 at 14:33

            All are valid questions to be asking……..but surely not after a couple of months?  How can you really determine if advertising in certain media is working after 2 months?

            You say the hitwise figures are damming (which is pretty strong words) What hitwise figures do you think would have been acceptable, or considered successful after 6-8 weeks of a new website starting from scratch?

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            1. smile please
              March 25, 2015 at 15:47

              Damming is strong, maybe a little harsh but does go to show the gap between OTM and Z – It was more a reality check to the posters that are already declaring a victory over Z and prematurely writing the obituary.

              The point of my post was just to remind people not to follow blindly, If what is questioned is talked about the end product would be better.

              As for what figures would i have considered successful? Difficult as not my area of expertise but i can see from the stats Z have produced via Hitwise a significant gap. If i was with OTM i think i would be happy at this stage of 100,000 hits per day consistently.

               

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    2. Harree
      March 25, 2015 at 12:45

      the message – excellent post. Except, my stance and comments have been consistent on AM/OTM ie., the one portal rule is fatally flawed, not in the buyers or sellers interests, AM has no chance of overtaking Z and has merely strengthened RM and Springett is denying independent industry accepted web visitor figures whilst providing zilch proof of his own. I’ve also consistently said that I would support an agent owned portal but that AM have gone about this the wrong way – demanding/dictating that agents drop RM or Z may have persuaded many of those whose hearts rule their heads over portal fees … but the majority of EA’s (including me) see value and ROI in RM and Z and won’t drop either merely to take a punt on AM.

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      1. wilko
        March 25, 2015 at 12:53

        “my stance and comments have been consistent on AM/OTM ie., the one portal rule is fatally flawed blah blah etc, etc, etc,etc, etc……….Haree, we know your stance, you’ve told us enough times……..please…“give us a break and try posting something different, maybe on another news story?”

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        1. Harree
          March 25, 2015 at 13:59

          wilko – “Haree, we know your stance, you’ve told us enough times……..please…“give us a break and try posting something different, maybe on another news story?” …. OH DEAR!! So, you and your pro OTM cohorts can post whatever you like as often as you like but I can’t? Unless I’m gravely mistaken this is a forum … and I’ll say what I like, when I like and as often as I like. AM have a banning policy that I choose not to engage with … and I won’t be engaging with your  banning policy either  wilko.

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          1. wilko
            March 25, 2015 at 14:20

            Bit of an over reaction there, I don’t recall saying anything about banning you from anything, just suggesting you may want expand your thinking sometimes.

            To help could you give me your views on this one?……….If OTM listened to your comments here, and felt that from the beginning of next week they will let all members of AM  list anywhere they like and encourage online agents to put their property on OTM as well……..what do you think would happen, short,medium and long term?

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            1. Harree
              March 25, 2015 at 14:47

              wilko – I suggested exactly that to a senior AM exec prior to launch. I also proposed that member fees should be £150 a month across the board and all new listings withheld from RM and Z for 72 hours. If that had happened I am certain 75%+ of agents (including me) would have joined and supported the concept of moving towards a dominant agent owned portal. This would have given AM a far greater war chest and a real ‘early listing’ USP. However … I fear AM have missed the boat because dropping the one portal rule now would  be seen by many as an admission of panic/failure/failing to hit targets and I suspect many would not want to throw money at what they might see as a sinking ship.

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              1. wilko
                March 25, 2015 at 15:01

                Shame, I hoped you would actually answer my question.

                So you dont want OTM to drop the restriction rule?, or you don’t care because, in your view it is too late anyhow?

                If they did, short medium and long term outcomes for OTM in your view?

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                1. Harree
                  March 25, 2015 at 15:33

                  If they dropped it now I think short term it might add 200-500 to AM, not enough to really change the current position, medium and long term it would depend on how OTM performs. And no, I dont want OTM to drop the restriction rule … my agency is benefitting hugely because of it. Like it or not, believe it or not … that’s at fact.

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                  1. smile please
                    March 25, 2015 at 15:52

                    I like Harree’s idea of the roll out, would have got more agents on board, and if policed correctly with the 72 hour rule would really have made it a great USP.

                    Unlike Harree i cant say we have benefitted hugely from other agents being on it at this time, picked up a couple of extra instructions but nothing to crow about.

                     

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  16. wilko
    March 25, 2015 at 10:46

    “Two months in and the data shows clearly that OTM is a very expensive and ineffective marketing channel at this point.”…………Thanks for letting us all know that, as a Gold member I totally agree………but, as you say it is at this point. And at this point would you really expect it to be getting the same traffic as a major portal?

    Come on Zoopla……..start telling us, and your shareholders, what your plans for the future are. How are you going to attract new membership/stock? How will you increase revenue streams for your shareholders.

    One thing is for certain…….”you aren’t making any money, friends or winning future custom/loyalty by spending all your time bickering about traffic levels to another site.”…..Start thinking about your company and your business.

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    1. the message
      March 25, 2015 at 10:49

      couple of good points there wilko, best you have made. Totally agree with your first point. Z obviously hope that a lot of gold members didnt realise that this would be a long term investment and want to woo them back by highlighting the value gap.

       

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      1. wilko
        March 25, 2015 at 11:26

        “Z obviously hope that a lot of gold members didnt realise that this would be a long term investment”  If that’s true then it further proves that they have no understanding of OTM. Gold members, by contract and loan notes, are in for years…..not weeks or months. Perhaps they should have tried to woo us off Rightmove with a killer deal?

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        1. the message
          March 25, 2015 at 14:52

          you might be right Wilko, but does every gold member feel the same? and what about silver – tied into a marketing channel for 3 years that doesn’t work is a heck of a long time. I have never heard of any other business where you pay £300 for £30 worth of marketing benefit, whilst you help a business get off the ground. Even R only charged about £20 a month when they launched. Once things have cooled down, every agent will have to decide how long they are prepared to support OTM, and that is an individual decision. Its not what you think or Paul H thinks. You both might be right and no agent expects anything in the way of traffic for months or years. Springet has now come out and said no 2 by xmas, so at least that gives us something to look out for and track against. I think he has been drawn into saying that and its a silly thing to say, but lets hope I am wrong

          If I am wrong I will gladly jump onto OTM and benefit from all the hard work Paul H has done!! 🙂

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          1. wilko
            March 25, 2015 at 16:04

            I hear what you say, but surely the principle is similar to the ever increasing crowd funding that we keep hearing about. The proposition is put forward, if you like it , you invest, if you don’t, you don’t. We were all pretty united in suggesting to Chris from easy property that the proposal he had was not strong…..still it gained £millions from investors. I don’t see that OTM is any different from that respect and whilst I appreciate that some ,like me, liked it and joined all my offices, some were and remain unsure of it. I am not sure how relevant things like “how much OTM staff earn”, “are to the discussions on this forum bearing in mind the dissatisfaction on these points seems to always come from those who are not on otm and have no intention of coming onto otm-so why bleat on about it? It has nothing to do with the proposal/idea that members have backed and whilst trying to dissuade people from joining, Ian S’ salary has nothing to do with the proposal.

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  17. Paul H
    March 25, 2015 at 11:05

    Congratulations to Zoopla for raising their share price yesterday following this press release, however I feel that this is the only positive to come out of it.

    Agents that have left Zoopla will (in the most part) now never go back, so all they can do is try to stop new agents signing up. I doubt this press release will achieve that as anyone with an ounce of business sense knows that no new portal will be on a par with Zoopla and Rightmove in only 8 weeks.  And I think we all know that many of the agents that are still backing Zoopla are only doing so because they have tied themselves into long term contracts that run down some point this year. But they all understand that Zoopla are nothing without listings, so it’s quite poignant that only yesterday I had a discussion with a few agents who now cannot wait until there contract with Zoopla runs down as they also have had enough of Zoopla’s anti agent antics and want to instead support and back an agent owned portal, in fact one said to me that i’d happily de-list with Zoopla tomorrow if there was a way of only paying for 2 portals.

    Zoopla are clearly not winning any friends in the agent community at the moment only people buying shares.

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    1. the message
      March 25, 2015 at 14:48

      I’m sorry Paul H, but I just have it in for you more than anyone else, as I find everything you say just laughable. You have now admitted you work for OTM, thats fine, as a jumped up little marketing bod who is trying to justify his position, at least stop and think before you post

       

      1 – get your grammar right – nothing worse than people who don’t know their theres from their theirs so to speak!!

      “anyone with an ounce of business sense” – please stop the grandiose statements, you got a 2.2 from huddersfield poly for gods sake. Chesterman might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but business sense he has. What have you done today?

      Agents who have left will never go back – this is marketing spend for gods sake, not your wife who has been playing around behind your back. You spend marketing money if it works. Speaking on behalf of thousands of agents is a silly little thing to do

      I feel like a Z apologist here so will stop the tirade, hopefully people will know that my posts have been v balanced to date, and its just you who really wind me up. It is probably you who believes a national TV campaign at launch made perfect sense, before OTM had enough properties in enough regions to justify it. How much are agents paying for the benefit of your wisdom I wonder?!

       

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      1. Paul H
        March 25, 2015 at 14:55

        I do believe your trying to ruffle my feathers ‘the message’ and get me all worked up. That’s jolly nice of you.

        Although I am interested to know how i’ve admitted that I work for OTM, care to explain?

         

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        1. the message
          March 25, 2015 at 15:00

          you’re trying to ruffle

          your feathers

          its a tricky one I know.

          re-read your posts of the last week and see if you can spot your mistake. I just hope it doesn’t cost you your (not you’re) job. Though maybe Z would employ you…….

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          1. wilko
            March 25, 2015 at 15:07

            Shall I be the first to re create that great closing seen from that epic film that leads to mass crucifixions……………You are wrong…….

            “I work for OTM”

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            1. Paul H
              March 25, 2015 at 15:24

              Gotta laugh Wilko but god only knows what mistake i’ve made in the last week that’s apparently let the cat out the bag, that’s actually got me thinking!

              Just to save ‘the message’ from looking even more silly, I should point out that there are at least three other posters to this site who know who I am as well as Ros who i’ve been in discussions with on numerous occasions and it’s not a rep for OTM.

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              1. wilko
                March 25, 2015 at 16:08

                Did you do a post that meant to say if I work for OTM and forget to put in the “if”?

                Report
                1. Paul H
                  March 25, 2015 at 16:44

                  That must be it Wilko, can’t for the life of me find the post though, must be somewhere amongst all my many ‘bad grammar’ filled posts!

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      2. Robert May
        March 25, 2015 at 16:35

        I am one of the people who know who PaulH is and I can genuinely say he is  a good agent with good intentions! It is fairly well known that he and I have crossed swords on here on more than one occasion. However I will be the first to say that Paul H has to be respected for his commitment to AM, which extends far back into the archive of the other place. He also has to be respected for running a good business. I have vetted Paul and his business on many levels, he is a good bloke with a good business.

        Sadly  the respect people have  for your balanced opinion   is lost when you make it personal.

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        1. Paul H
          March 25, 2015 at 16:42

          Thank you Robert, we have indeed crossed swords a few times although i’ve also come to learn that you only have good intentions for the industry! Indeed it’s a shame that some people decide to make things personal and I think ‘the message’ has managed to quote my name on at least 4 of his comments on this thread.

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          1. Robert May
            March 25, 2015 at 18:47

            That  sort of post normally comes  about when the wit and words to counter your position run out Paul. One-nil to you!

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        2. PeeBee
          March 25, 2015 at 21:50

          I’m one of the others, by the way – AND I’m someone who had Paul H all boxed up as an AM Rep (or at very least a wannabe one…) LONG before you.

          I was wrong – and so my friend are you – BIG time.

          Whether or not you believe me is your choice.

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          1. Paul H
            March 26, 2015 at 10:40

            “AND I’m someone who had Paul H all boxed up as an AM Rep”….yet another revelation from my bud from the north east! 😉

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            1. PeeBee
              March 26, 2015 at 11:07

              Oh… I’m pretty sure it was blurted out during one of our early ‘handbags-at-ten-paces’ jobbies.

              It obviously hurt so much you’ve blotted it out of your memory, matey! ;o)

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      3. Ric
        March 25, 2015 at 21:00

        Love it when the grammar police don’t read back and triple check their own posts!

        Report
        1. Robert May
          March 26, 2015 at 09:16

          or even their own moniker?

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  18. davehedgehog
    March 25, 2015 at 15:12

    I work for OTM…..& so does my wife!

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  19. GPL
    March 25, 2015 at 16:56

    MY NAME IS SPARTACUS, SPARTICUS, SPARTYSOMETHINGOROTHER!?…

    anyway…

    I TOO WORK FOR OTM!

     

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    1. Paul H
      March 26, 2015 at 10:42

      My name is SPARTYSPRINGETT and I too work for OTM!

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  20. GPL
    March 25, 2015 at 16:59

    … JOIN ME FELLOW SPARTIFOLK!

    … in our Legions!

    WE WORK FOR OTM!

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  21. GPL
    March 25, 2015 at 17:04

    that’s the thing… themessage?

    you don’t get it… we do though…

    you need to look away from that mirror that you gaze into… bent over… gazing… summing up all your wit & intelligence to come up with… “jumped up little marketing bod?”

    we can describe you in much more detail!

    Report
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