No we WON’T give up our avocado on toast, aspiring home buyers confirm

The overwhelming majority of people will not give up avocado on toast in order to get on the housing ladder.

In total, 87% out of 2,000 surveyed will not give up the luxury – even though one in three regard home ownership as one of life’s top priorities.

Rather than giving up their favourite luxury, more would be prepared to sacrifice nights out (35%), annual holidays (35%) and takeaways (30%) in order to try and raise a deposit.

Avocados and property were first mentioned in the same breath when Australian property tycoon Tim Gurner urged millennials to stop buying avocados on toast and expensive coffees in order to save for a deposit.

Strutt & Parker then came up with a list of six luxuries which if sacrificed could save a couple £33,378 over five years.

Strutt & Parker suggested that would-be house buyers stop buying expensive coffees and make their own sandwiches rather than buy them.

However, it had to withdraw its advice after a furious backlash from those objecting to the inference that they belong to the ‘snowflake’ generation.

Housing journalist Peter Apps described the advice as “economically illiterate”.

Apps said: “Don’t blame the sandwiches: blame the agents.”

One critic wrote: “Another great idea on top of giving up your social life etc would be to give up renting a flat and live on the streets instead. You could save up in no time.”

It would seem from the new survey, by Bellway Homes, that attitudes have not changed since Strutt & Parker’s advice last November.

The new survey also reveals that over half (54%) have no one to help them with a deposit.

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37 Comments

  1. Will

    Well it speaks for itself.  Mr Apps like so many want to blame someone else for the inability to be sufficiently disciplined to save for a deposit blaming Estate Agents! – not even blaming market conditions.  Have your luxuries but don’t whinge if you can’t save to better yourself.

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    1. Will

      P.S.   I am not an estate agent!

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  2. P-Daddy

    I’m delighted to hear this news…I have bought and avocado farm, so please millennial’s…keep your favourite breakfast luxury….

    I love this though, a luxury and lifestyle aspiration is no longer a night out or a holiday!! Its avocados and ipads 🙂 The advice I keep giving my kids is to get out into the world and experience and have experience based opinions…not Google or the internet opinions! Try it you’ll be happier.

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  3. Woodentop

    From us oldies to the young generation …. you have never had it so good. There was a time that one would make do and only buy what one could afford and you would save up. Now it seems that people like Peter Apps thinks you can have your cake and eat it.

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    1. mattstephens38

      For you oldies who have crippled the housing market – when the property values go from 3x salaries to 5x+ saving a couple of quid on nice groveries arent exactly going to touch the sides

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      1. Will

        Oldies NEVER controlled the market. It is the Governments of the day and the banks that set the scene. People then made their choices. Some old people are wealthy some are very poor. Some people are beautiful some are not: it’s life and the hand you are dealt – make the most of the life you have whilst you have it!

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      2. Will

        You seem to have forgotten that interest rates massively affect why multipliers change.  Interest rates in 1980 hit 15.25% and this was with a 3 to 3.5 multiplier. 5 time salary with a much lower interest rates available in recent years makes them affordable. It is an affordability multiplier.  What will stuff people is if the Government raise interest rates significantly back to double figures – they existed before and they could again!! Who knows!

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    2. Dom_P

      What a very blinkered comment.

      Having recently purchased a house with my wife I can assure you that, much like you state, we had not to not only make do with what we could afford and save up, but also go without many things and make several sacrifices in order to ‘have our cake and eat it’.

      Your opinion over generational experience is purely that, opinion, as statistically, looking at ages 25-34, the 2005-2006 figures show that compared with the 2015-16 figures, the percentage buying a home with a mortgage dropped from 53% to 35%.

      Countless studies show that the dream of home ownership is becoming exactly that for many; a dream, as us younger generation (being generous about myself there!) reap the benefit of a housing market throttled by a generation whose earnings were more comparable to the price of housing, who often had generous pensions which funded BTL property investments to supplement their retirement, leading to decreased stock and increased rents, further squeezing the pockets of the aspiring homeowners.

      On what basis do you think we have ‘never had it so good’?
       

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      1. Woodentop

        Actually it is the young ones that made the mess with 5 x income. We kept telling you, you couldn’t afford it. Did you listen … err no, and off you all went (those that it applies to) and wangled mortgage you couldn’t afford fuelling property price rises. But you also had to have your cake, a new car, a booze holiday, the latest designer wear, all on credit. Lost count of the number of FTB they came in with over £20k debt on credit cards alone. You may say that was the fault of irresponsible credit lending … it was … but if you didn’t ask for what you couldn’t afford … you wouldn’t been in the position many are now in. The temptation was too great for many and that …. peer pressure!

         

        I have young ones and they have listened and tried not to compete with the peer pressure but often find it difficult. As to not having it so good … you name it, you can basically have it (excluding costs), the world is a different place with plenty of choice and it is the young ones (a generalisation that clearly will not apply to all, but fuelled by the masses) who want it now, not tomorrow. Do you really need a tablet, iPhone etc, a holiday abroad when you can only afford a caravan at Wetson-On-the-Mud? We survived without one and managed to communicate with each other and bought what we could afford, as there was very little, to no credit available and it was the latter when the rot set in. There are more than a few OAP living in povety who worked all their life and never claimed a benefit. Look at all the benefits available to younger generation, so good many don’t see the need to go to work. This is not applicable to all those hard working young people who I have great admiration for. When you are older … you will be saying the same to the young ones!

         

        My comment was “There was a time that one would make do and only buy what one could afford and you would save up”. 

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        1. Bobbins50

          Untrue Woodentop.  The remortgaging trend of the 80’s and 90’s has created the problem.

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          1. PeeBee

            “The remortgaging trend of the 80’s and 90’s has created the problem.”

            Talk us through that one, Bobbins50.

            S…l…o…w…l…y, please.  Let’s not rush it.

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          2. Woodentop

            Is it? I shall be pleased to read your response. As for 5 x income mortgages. There were many with their finger in the pie – i.e. lenders and financial advisors but without the borrower doing what they new they couldn’t afford .. come on! This helped fuel the property boom of 2006, sellers jumped onto the band wagon when easy credit produced unrealistic affordability, it became a pyramid with responsible people were saying it would end in tears … it did. Before 2006 many first time buyers could afford on 3 x salary and back in the early 1990’s the likes of LAUTRO made it very difficult to stray from 3 x income, then Blair/Brown deregulated the wild west of credit in the UK.

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        2. Dom_P

          Ok.

          I have no idea what you are referring to in terms of younger ones being to blame for the 5x income, however I would point out that the cost of living has risen disproportionately when compared to income, so not sure that your argument is valid.

          Some stats for you which largely support my argument:

          The average price of a first home has increased by 5,225% over the past 46 years whereas incomes have only grown by roughly half. This equates to first time buyers spending roughly 30-40% more to buy their first home when compared to 1969. (Council of Mortgage Lenders & Shelter)

          More than a third of property wealth in the UK is owned by households where at least one occupant is over 65 (ONS)

          The Chartered Institute of Housing has warned of older, privileged Homeowners buying and renting homes out to those priced out of the housing market, exacerbating the problem.

          The thing to consider Woodentop is that this is not a criticism of you or people of a certain generation, but it is undeniable that certain generations were born at a particularly lucky time where by they have amassed unearned wealth through acquisition of affordable property.

          Someone of my generation could work equally as hard for the equivalent money, however it will only go roughly half as far due to a disparity between wages and inflation.

          Many people of a certain generation, and I’d respectfully suggest that you fall into this generalisation, refuse to accept that certain generations were riding a wave of financial growth, off the back of parents who served in the war and set up good social care and services with a view to bettering society. They took their loot, invested in cheap housing, developing tech, gold plated pensions and quite rightly created a future for themselves, however this has been in part funded by today’s generations further exacerbating the problem.

          Some things are luxuries, and again I would respectfully suggest that an iPhone/smartphone is something of a necessity in today’s society, and many people utilise cheap deals but don’t pay for landlines.

          I do wholeheartedly agree that there is an endemic issue in the UK with benefits, and the system it creates where it is easier to not work than work, but that is not really the issue we are discussing.

          I feel you have used this as a reason to get on your soapbox about ‘those darn youth’ when in part, there is a responsibility of certain generations to accept that their good fortune helped create the world we all now share.

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          1. Woodentop

            I think you are looking far to much into this. I saw my parents scrimp and scrape to get to where they did, god bless them. Society is a wave with ups and downs and there is no one fix or answer. There has always been povety for some, wealth for others and many peole between for centuries, it is nothing new. However one wishes to dress it up, you can only afford what you have in your purse. How much is in your prurse is the point of todays story, not how you came by it or didn’t get it. If you have only “x” amount, you can only afford “x” amount and if you wish to buy something that costs “x” amount = you are a winner. If you haven’t “x” amount, you either save, or if not that fortuaneate to have extra to save, then your only option is to tighten the belt and those luxuries need to be considered. That is reality or your will never have “X” amount.  You have answered my point … regarding Iphones and tablets …. not prepared to give them up because it is the trend to have. Life went on before, although times have changed, you can survive without them … you won’t shrivel up and die. They are a luxury for many, not a necessity. Continue to pay silly money or use the amount to save for a roof over your head. The Iphone might not be the best example, but it demonstrates the point that today do people have their priorties right for what they need to do. My parents tightend their belts, I did for my children, none of us borrowed what we couldn’t pay back. If you say the young can’t afford today, then they will never afford unless they do something about it.

             

            As to 5 times income, that is what fuelled property prices out of all proportion. Unscrupolous Lenders giving mortgages 5 x a borrowers salary that couldn’t be maintained. With property, provide affordability and it will climb. Take it away and it will crash back to a level that can be sustained. ie. 2006 to 2009 and 2011 to 2018 little growth after the lending bandwagon wheel came off … leaving the mess we have today. Salaries are not keeping up with realtime inflation on basics, let alone luxuries for many.

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      2. PeeBee

        Dom_P –

        “…a housing market throttled by a generation whose earnings were more comparable to the price of housing, who often had generous pensions which funded BTL property investments to supplement their retirement…”

        Sorry, bonny lad… but you say Woodentop’s comment was “blinkered” and expect to get away with that stereotypical bag of b0ll0cks?

        You should change your posting name to ‘Red_Rum’.

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        1. Dom_P

          PeeBee, I accept that not everyone had generous pensions and that was a generalisation, but the average salary compared to average house prices have not risen in tandem over the years; please see my above post.
           

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          1. PeeBee

            Dom_P

            Thank you for your response. 

            I have to say however that your comment was far from a generalisation – it was a tarring of a football stadium-ful of genuine fans with the same brush as the first five eejits in the East

            Stand to call the ref a b@st@rd!

            In answer to your point re salaries, please see my post at the foot of the thread.

            You might be slightly surprised by the content – and your comments would be welcome.

            PB

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  4. Dom_P

    Am I the only person who read this and found it odd?!

    Essentially: “People who can’t afford to buy X decide they’d rather cut back on Y than Z”…hardly groundbreaking advice surely, and why shouldn’t an individual be free to make a choice which affects them based on their individual needs and motivation?!

     

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    1. P-Daddy

      Everybody wants it and they want it now! If they don’t get it, they turn to the internet to share their outrage and sign a petition….wonder how that stacks up with a mortgage lenders credit scoring system!? You have to budget for what you need….the me me me society ignore that unfortunately.

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      1. Dom_P

        I agree entirely regarding a need to budget for things, I just find it odd that it is a headline that people would rather sacrifice X than Y to achieve something, as essentially this is exactly what budgeting is; ascertaining what for an individual is essential and what isn’t.

        The article states that people would rather give up actual luxuries (Holidays, nights out etc.) than a semi-necessity, i.e. breakfast. Granted Avocado is not the cheapest, but realistically it’s not stacks more than a different breakfast choice may be.

        I guess it’s the tone of the piece more than anything that seems weird; a bit of a non-story. Just my two pence though; maybe I’ve not had enough coffee this morning!

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  5. PeeBee

    ‘Apps said: “Don’t blame the sandwiches: blame the agents.” ‘

    Oh, dear – is this yet another soggy f@rt-in-a-handkerchief that somehow thinks that the selling Agent is somehow responsible for the inability of certain would-be buyers to act on their aspiration?

    And the guy is a “property reporter” – supposedly ‘in the know’?

    Jeez – proof that they must be letting monkeys carry guns these days…

     

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  6. PeeBee

    They found two thousand knackers who munch on avocado and toast for brekkie?

    Nee wonder the world has gone t!ts-up!

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  7. PeeBee

    From a yellowed and slightly crispy “newspaper” (you will find them in a search for “ancient”+”media”+”types” ) dated 2/6/77 that I found under a carpet of a property we were selling recently:

    The new SKODA Estelle from £1549*.

    3 bedroom semi house – £11,000.

    Lurpak butter(8oz) – 23p.

    Today’s equivalent:

    The new SKODA Rapid from £15470  Roughly 10x the 1977 equivalent

    3 bedroom semi house (2 streets away from the ’77 example) – £129,950  Roughly 11.5x the 1977 equivalent

    Lurpak butter (250g) – £2  Roughly 8.5x the 1977 equivalent

    Unfortunately I didn’t keep the ‘Sits Vacant’ pages – it was the ones with our advert that I carefully rolled up to (one day) frame.  On reflection it would have been interesting to compare various salaries…. BUT… 

    …from the doddery old memory banks of my first job in the industry, I do seem to remember, however, around that time, that a brickie building the houses I was then selling was getting a basic hourly rate of around £1 (37.5 hour week) and roughly fifty quid a week in bonus – roughly £4200pa.  Currently they are picking up an average of £36679 – roughly 8.75x the 1977 figure.

    Seems that the cost/value/worth of a lot of stuff is pretty constant after all – dunnit.

     

    *including seat belts, according to the advert…

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    1. Woodentop

      In the 70’s I was earning £28 a month (now UK average £475 a week). A new Mini I recall cost £600 (now £10,500) and a 3 bed semi-house £11,000. In the mid 1980’s a new build 4 bed house in some parts of the country was £64,000 and a parking space in Knightsbridge £65,000. Today the average salary is rated under £30,000pa x 3 (the way it was used be before Blair/Brown wrecked everything) = £90,000 plus 10% deposit = near £100,000 buying power. Thats a lot of saving for FTB to hit the average value of £144,000 for a 3 bed semi, once £11,000. in 2017 the BBC did a bit on the same story and worked it out to buy in London would cost 67 years of going without avocados on toast for just the deposit.

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      1. PeeBee

        Have you ever had avocado on toast for your brekkie, Woodentop?

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        1. Woodentop

          No, maybe that’s why I can afford things?

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    2. Dom_P

      Hi PeeBee,

      Interesting to read, and fair, although I would question using a brickies salary as the measuring stick given that their salaries have been artificially boosted by a severe skills shortage in the UK.

      An interesting read…

      https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5568/housing/uk-house-price-affordability/

      Have a great day!

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      1. PeeBee

        Hi Dom_P

        Have just read the link you posted.  Closely.  Twice.

        Please take this the right way, as it is not directed at you in any way, shape or form – but that is ten minutes of my life that I will never get back!

        ‘No 5h!t, Sherlock’ reporting at its ridiculous worst.

        New title needed to finish it off perfectly: 

        “Stuff’s Gone Up – Here’s Just Some Of It.” 

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  8. Will

    Wow,  all very heated.  It is not a generational thing, it is down to Government, market conditions the choices people make in life. It is no surprise that the older generation have more wealth they have had a lifetime to save it. Those choices (plus, of course, good or bad luck) results in when you stand at any given age. Not everyone of the older generation is wealthy many are so poor they can’t heat their homes.

    Life is not  always fair but at least we live in a country where there are opportunities to make the most of your abilities.

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    1. PeeBee

      Not so much ‘heated’ as ‘opinionated’, Will.

      The thing is – those of us that ‘Dom_P’ and ‘mattstephens38’ are tarring with a pretty broad brush have been there and still have the T-shirt hanging in the back of the closet.

      When I was 25 I wanted the apparent wealth and comfort of people in their 50s. I was spending what I earned plus a bit. Two kids and a mortgage on a terraced ex council house in an okay part of town (I still live there – just a slightly bigger house and it’s not ex-LA.  Haven’t I come up in the world!

      I own one property.  Never had the want nor need to buy another from under the nose of someone who would then have to pay for it on my behalf.

      In 1 month I will be mortgage free for the first time since I was 20.  I can take a lumper from my p!55-poor pension which might just buy me a reasonable second-hand car to replace my current 14-year old wheels.

      I would say that I’m a pretty typical mid-50s person.  Still wanting that apparent wealth and comfort we dreamed about 30 years ago.

      And no longer have the hair nor stamina to enjoy it… if and when it comes!

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      1. Will

        PeeBee,
        I have to congratulate you on your soon to be mortgage free status. It is a good feeling – enjoy. As I have said elsewhere we all make choices in life. Some are luckier than others but thats the way of the world. Some make bad choices and then complain. Some make good choices and are then blamed for their success as if it is a crime. At the end of the day we should all value life and our family irrespective of our bank balance. I believe social media has a lot to answer for!

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      2. Dom_P

        Hi PeeBee,

        No insinuation or tarring with brushes of you and/or others was intended; apologies for any offence caused.

        My point was more intended as defensive point, that often certain generations are vilified for their inability to save without any acceptance that, for whatever reason, be it government, social/economic factors, cost of living increases etc. we live in a very different world now than even 10/20 years ago..

        Any ‘when i was young…’ reflections are, by and large, incomparable because the world is now a different place with different social and financial pressures, and in the same way that I didn’t live my grand parents or parents lives, similarly they aren’t living mine.

        The population is growing at a rate unsupported by the amount of housing available, which drives prices up; correct me if I’m wrong but I believe this is generally accepted to be the case? It therefore figures that an older generation who have had a lifetime to amass wealth (not in all cases granted), will on occasion purchase BTL investments, further squeezing stock and raising prices.

        Don’t get me wrong, it’s not a criticism, hell, I’d do it if I had the money, I’m just trying to put my point across!

         

        Oh, and congratulations on clearing the mortgage; only another 27 years to go for me!

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        1. PeeBee

          Dom_P

          Fear not, Sir – I take no offence from your post – simply offer an alternative aspect for consideration!

          Whether or not people commit to saving for something is a lifestyle choice – but also dependent upon their individual circumstances.

          One thing that I think we can all agree on, is that for many, earnings are way out of sync with their needs and wants.

          That, to a degree has always been the case – hence ‘back in the day, many people resorted to taking second jobs – in pubs, clubs among others – in order to balance the books, or to be able to afford some of life’s little luxuries that were out of reach on their main income alone.

          It must be accepted that there will always be an element of the life in the pond that cannot afford to own a lily-pad – or at least own the size of lily-pad they would like to; or in the area of the pond that they would aspire to be floating in!  With all due respect – and genuine admiration of the job they do on all our behalfs – to street-sweepers, there aren’t many of them that you will find shacked up in their own six-bed mansionette in leafy SW1A.

          100% home ownership is a dream only the insane should believe possible.  There is also an element of the population for whom ownership of said lily-pad is not something they would necessarily thank you for – although some would have you believe (and may well be right…) that a great many of them are simply resigned to a future of renting.

          You are, by the way, 100% correct when you say that there is no compare between ‘historic reflections’.  What happened yesterday happened; what happens tomorrow is yet to come and bite us on our @sses.  Nevertheless, we do it.  I did it… no doubt my old man did it before me – and my grandkids will in a few short years be asking me whether there were dinosaurs when I was young in the same way that my youngest son asked me mother!

          He still talks with a slight limp…

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          1. Dom_P

            Hi PeeBee,

            I absolutely agree with you on that one; pleasure discussing it with you; it’s nice to hear alternative points of view which challenge my own.

            Hope you have had a good day.

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      3. Woodentop

        No mortgage …. what a relief you will discover. Hey you’ll now be able to enjoy avocado on toast for your brekkie. Good points Will.

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        1. PeeBee

          Mate, trust me – avocado on toast will NEVER… EVER… be served up in PeeBee Towers – brekkie, din-dins or even as the occasional trat for my veggie rottweiller!

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        2. Will

          Woodentop,

          Thank you for your acknowledgement.  All these comments spring from the nonsense spouted by Peter Apps. Blame the Agents (and no I am not an estate agent).  Agents do not set the market they reflect it.

           

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