OnTheMarket shreds claims it will not catch up with Zoopla ‘any time soon’

| Rosalind Renshaw

A claim that OnTheMarket will not catch up with Zoopla “any time soon” was last night totally rejected by OTM.

The challenger portal also made clear that it still plans to do just that – and soon.

The site said that more than 4,800 offices are now signed up to OnTheMarket.

It hit back heavily at claims by search engine Home, saying Home had barely dented the market after 18 years.

OTM re-emphasised that it still expects to replace Zoopla as the number two portal within a year, underlining plans to be a “full alternative to Rightmove”.

Property search engine Home sent out a press release using its own figures. These included that OTM has made inroads into Zoopla’s market share but has failed to make any impact on Rightmove.

But last night, Home’s claims were totally shredded by OTM.

Two attempts by Eye inviting Home to clarify its figures have so far been unanswered.

In its release, Home, purely looking at sales agents and also looking at Zoopla and PrimeLocation separately, said that OTM is lying in fifth place behind Rightmove, Zoopla, PrimeLocation and Mouseprice. It says OTM is “just ahead” of sixth-placed Nethouseprices.

According to Home, there are 4,927 agents’ offices signed up to OTM as of March 10. This is higher than the latest figure given by OTM itself  and  very close to its launch target of 5,000.

Home says that at OTM’s launch date on January 26, Zoopla had 10,712 sales agency offices. By March 10, this had fallen to 9,072.

However, said Home, Rightmove’s tally of 12,850 sales agency offices has barely moved, down to 12,712.

Home says that looking further back, the figures show that many of those who jumped ship from Zoopla did so before OTM’s launch.

On December 15, Zoopla had 12,218 agents which, Home claims, means the portal has suffered an exodus of 3,146 agents’ offices over the last three months. Over the same period Rightmove lost 144.

Property Portal Sales Agents (Dec 15, 2014 – Mar 10, 2015)

Dec 15 Mar 10
Zoopla sales agents 12,218 9,072
Rightmove sales agents 12,856 12,712
Sales agents advertising properties on both Zoopla and Rightmove 10,073 6,933
Mouseprice sales agents 6,733 6,314
OTM sales agents 4,927
Sales agents advertising properties on OTM 4,313

Source: The Home.co.uk Property Search Engine

On this evidence, says Home, OTM looks a long way from its aim of breaking into the top two at the expense of Zoopla. Moreover, it claims, some 600 OTM agents have yet to get clients’ properties uploaded to the new portal.

Home also claimed there is also emerging evidence that the exodus from Zoopla is tapering off, making OTM’s task tougher in the months ahead. According to Home, on March 10 there were 6,933 agents continuing to use both Zoopla and Rightmove, a tally that has fallen by just 108 since February 25, compared with a fall of 1,142 between January 27 and February 2.

Eye has asked Doug Shephard, of Home, for further information as to its figures.

We have had no response from Home but last night Ian Springett, CEO of OTM, told Eye: “Mr Shepherd’s comments on the Agents’ Mutual strategy and the progress of OnTheMarket.com are inaccurate and misleading.

“For example, he fails to mention that OnTheMarket.com is already getting more consumer traffic than Home.co.uk, Mouseprice and NetHousePrices put together.

“If Alexa is used as a measure, it is their UK rankings which are most relevant. After only eight weeks since its launch, OnTheMarket.com is already ranked at 604, placing it among the country’s most visited websites.

“Meanwhile, Home.co.uk is ranked at 2,789 after more than 18 years.

“Our progress will continue as we add more members and properties, extend consumer awareness as our multi-million pound advertising campaign continues, and begin to gain high rankings on major search engines.

“Our entry to the portals market increases competition.

“No agent or consumer has any less choice than they had before.

“OnTheMarket.com provides agents with a superb environment for advertising their clients’ properties with a slick and fast search and results pages which are uncluttered with intrusive third party advertising or unhelpful data included without their consent on their full details pages.

“The great majority of the 4,800+ agent offices which have joined OnTheMarket.com over the last 15 months have left Zoopla to do so. We expect to continue adding members at a similarly rapid rate over the coming year.

“If these new members make similar choices, we will replace Zoopla as the number two portal within a year and be in a position to develop into a full alternative to Rightmove for them.

“Mr Shepherd’s company uses agents’ data without their consent for its own commercial benefit. It helps sustain the current portals duopoly by sending leads via Zoopla and Rightmove rather than directly to the agent.

“Therefore, it is another example of a ‘service provider’ out of touch with current agent sentiment and with the strength of commitment of the member firms of OnTheMarket.com in doing what it takes to make the venture a success.

“It is unsurprising that Mr Shepherd should oppose a competing portal owned by more than 2,500 independent firms of estate and lettings agents which aims to disrupt that duopoly.”

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85 Comments

  1. The Outsider
    March 16, 2015 at 07:12

    PIE asking home.Co.uk to clarify it’s figures, and Springett doing some weird comparison between OTMs Alexa ranking and Home.Co.uk’s.

     

    Yet in amongst all this, we still don’t have any clarity over OTM’s visitor numbers or leads generated.

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    1. Robert May
      March 16, 2015 at 07:25

      Good morning  Outsider, please could I ask why you think visitor numbers and leads generated by a website is important in selling property? I don’t think it is and want someone to explain to me once and for all how hits, page views and time on site correlate to completion statistics.

       

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      1. HarryN
        March 16, 2015 at 07:36

        Robert – your question beggars belief.

        If an agent (or any advertiser for that matter) is taking on the marketing responsibility for their end customer, that customer will want to know that the marketing is happening in the right places. The beauty of online is that it is measurable, and therefore if their agent is telling them that OTM ‘is the best thing since sliced bread’, but it is failing to attract an audience, they simply won’t believe it if it is shown that OTM, for all of the guff, simply isn’t attracting sufficient audience.

        Springer said the other day something along the lines of ‘it is a myth that more marketing exposure leads to a higher price’. Anyone who believes that shouldn’t bother with any marketing at all. What is the point if more market exposure doesn’t result in a better result.

        The problem here Robert is that many of those involved in this project are great estate agents, but there are not great marketeers. One of the pain points for agents in recent years is understanding that they are Sales and Marketing outsourcers. The 50-year-old, RICS qualified agent model has a place in niche markets, but for everyday folk, they just want someone who will generate audience, handle negotiations, and progress the sale.

        Audience is a – significant – part of that.

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        1. Robert May
          March 16, 2015 at 08:01

          You have fired off a very quick reply Harry but not taken the time to think about the question I asked.

          My question covered all of the portals, not just OTM and by focusing it on OTM you have  carefully failed to answer the most salient question that can be asked.

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        2. Ric
          March 16, 2015 at 09:01

          HarryN – Most great estate agents are not great marketeers? The two go hand in hand, that is a crazy comment (in my opinion)

          In fact I say most days, I am a marketing expert, my staff are customer service experts and buyers are called buyers for a reason!

          Let the three come together and you end up with a great Estate Agency Business, BUT it all started with the person who marketed their business best and won the instruction.

          What is a Great Estate Agent? and What is a Great Marketeer?

           

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          1. danny
            March 16, 2015 at 10:43

            Ok Ric, Convince me , as a marketing expert what three things does OTM bring to to marketing mix that means I should sacrifice a tried and tested portal?

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            1. Ric
              March 16, 2015 at 14:35

              danny… Don’t sacrifice anything for anyone. Do what you think is right for your business and stay with them, if it works for you do not worry about me, or any other agent who supports the concept of OTM and continue to make money!

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  2. HarryN
    March 16, 2015 at 07:38

    The question I have for OTM is ‘where is your audience going to come from?’. So far, no answers other than rants and proclamations from the Grand Fromage.

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    1. Property Pundit
      March 16, 2015 at 09:03

      Why don’t you tell us?

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      1. Ric
        March 16, 2015 at 09:07

        Bu99er, I had to take a call before I could ask the same question! I can only think of saying they will come from “wherever they live” as you cannot be looking for us to say “the audience will come from marketing which is being done” can you HarryN?

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  3. danny
    March 16, 2015 at 08:15

    Just to put this into perspective these are some of the sites that attract more traffic than OTM according to Alexa that Ian keeps banging on about

    485) xhamstercam.com – a live feed to a tank of hamsters

    346) doublepimp.com – no description offered , not taking the chance of looking

    292) chaturbate.com – not even going to guess, slightly worried

    before I get bounced all over by the it’s only been a couple of months Springett has claimed he will be number two in 9 months time, he’s had a 1/4 of the time ,spent most of the ad cash by the looks and has hit the dizzying heights of 600 ish most popular website …. He’s not convincing me he’ll get anywhere near

     

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    1. Property Ear
      March 16, 2015 at 08:33

      It’s already pretty obvious he won’t get anywhere near – OTM’s expectation to replace Z as No 2 within a year is a dream. Also – it’s so easy for members to forget why it was set up in the first place – that was to knock Rightmove off their perch. Once again, dream on – it’s quite clearly not going to happen – almost funny that the principle protagonists are still coughing up to RM!

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    2. wilko
      March 16, 2015 at 11:31

      Danny….”Hamstercam” is a brilliant site and should boast more traffic as it is more established. It attracts Hamster enthusiasts from all around the world…..my kids and all their school friends are always going on about it. My kids also love “lambcam” in the spring where you have 24/7 webcams on all the lambs born on the farm. Have a look…..the associated forums are massive with people commenting on the animal behaviour, number of lambs born etc each day. Even “owl cam” has massive traffic…….you see there are always going to be more animal lovers/watchers than UK house buyers at any one time – so your analogy here is completely flawed!

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      1. smile please
        March 16, 2015 at 12:17

        Not sure your kids should be looking at that website above Wilko, Not many hamsters on there !!!!!

         

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        1. wilko
          March 16, 2015 at 12:25

          Guess there must be more than one hamster cam…hopefully!!!

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          1. Disillusioned
            March 16, 2015 at 12:46

            Sounds like Wilko Jnr is on the verge of being grounded here!

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      2. danny
        March 16, 2015 at 12:56

        I could have literally picked any one of over 600 websites to make the analogy Wilko, the point still stands.Also id be careful , ive heard that many hamster enthiusasts are disgruntled with the fees being paid to hamster cam so they are forming their own cam website…your children soon wont access to 100% of the hamster population, your not allowed to appear on more than 1 hamster channel apparently. Since hamster cam is quite established and your children have heard of it and visit it reguarly I would imagine they would just continue to watch the hamsters they know oblivious to the fact that 40% of the hamsters are now on another website theyve never heard of … as a parent bet it makes you sick that Wilko Jnr is not going to see all his furry friends in one place… shame on you Hamster owners 😉

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        1. wilko
          March 16, 2015 at 14:37

          “ive heard that many hamster enthiusasts are disgruntled with the fees being paid to hamster cam so they are forming their own cam website”

          I heard that too. When I asked my son about it he said he’s going to keep his hamstercam membership for a bit longer as some of his favourite hamsters have remained on it…….he did, however add that he has also started a monthly membership of rodentcam whose aim is to have all types of rodent on the site. He dropped mousecam, ratcam & volecam memberships to fund it. When the remaining hamsters move to rodentcam he’ll drop hamstercam completely.

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          1. Ric
            March 16, 2015 at 17:03

            like OTM I hope rodentcam keeps nibbling away at hamstercam – bite size chunks and all that! 😉

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  4. EHenderson
    March 16, 2015 at 08:59

    The most interesting aspect of this is that almost every one of my competitors/peers who went for this, did so with all of the right intentions and with (generally) three objectives:

    1. Tame Rightmove. Complete failure. Rightmove today are worth £3billion, and any talk of agents ‘first taking on Zoopla, then Rightmove’ has moved into the insane. It will take OTM 3-5 years to take on Zoopla, so by that point Rightmove will be so ingrained as the market leader no agent would dare leave them. In fact, the actions of this segment (5,000 offices) of the market are endangering the rest of us by strengthening Rightmove.

    2. Take control of portal spend. Unknown outcome, but the likely outcome here is that the one other portal rule will drop and many agents will be forced to spend on all three. Not sure how that is taking control, so likely to be an utter failure

    3. Stop the rise of online agents. Still unclear, but given that Easyproperty have raised pretty much the same as Agents Mutual in funds, one would think that rather than limiting online agents, these 5,000 have added to their investment story, if not their chances of success. So, another unknown outcome but likely to ultimately gobble up 10-25% of the market.

    I wonder when the everyday, run of the mill agents involved will reason the folly of their decisions and stop fuelling Springett/Savills/Knight Frank’s power trip?

    I also wonder when OUR association, will remove their endorsement of a project that is likely to damage the majority of their members, having already alienated a minority of them?

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    1. Robert May
      March 16, 2015 at 09:44

      I’d not heard of Home, so went and had a look.   In my area 3 local AM agents have listings on Home, I guess they aren’t aware that Home is putting them in breach of the  Agent’s Mutual O.O.P rule

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      1. Paul H
        March 16, 2015 at 10:06

        It appears that home.co.uk also has my companies properties listed. They must be a scraper site like Houser as my software allows me to choose who to list with and home.co.uk is not one of those sites.

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        1. Robert May
          March 16, 2015 at 10:39

          Are you leaving your stock on there Paul?

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          1. Paul H
            March 16, 2015 at 10:47

            No I just sent an email asking my listings to be taken off, I didn’t even know of the site let alone the fact that they had my properties listed.

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            1. Robert May
              March 16, 2015 at 11:23

              I am guessing you are the first of many!

              Over the weekend I found another Portal I had never heard of, taking the list to 94. When we are free of the development and testing work we had planned I will see if I can identify how many other sites are piggy backing your listings.

               

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              1. Robert May
                March 16, 2015 at 11:39

                Nestoria and Mouseprice are both offering your  listings but strangely enough Home.co.uk didn’t come up on the list.

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                1. Paul H
                  March 16, 2015 at 12:02

                  I do not understand how Mouseprice or Nestoria can be up loading my listings as my software provider only allows me to list on Rightmove adn OnTheMarket. In any case I cannot ever remember getting a lead through any of these sites.

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  5. Dr. C
    March 16, 2015 at 09:12

    Alexa is terribly inaccurate when it comes to measuring website traffic. I’d be dreadfully worried for OTM if they are using this as their primary source for statistics.

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  6. nickthehousewales
    March 16, 2015 at 10:14

    Anybody else out there fed up to the back teeth by all this. Zoopla, accept it you’ve got more competition, suck it up and shut up. Should have thought about looking after your agents a very long time ago. OTM the good Lord gave us two ears and one mouth……use them in the same proportion please. You’ve got nothing to prove. Yes we’re with OTM and we ain’t missing Zoopla!!

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  7. Harree
    March 16, 2015 at 10:43

    Instead of all this cloak and daggers why don’t AM just come clean and state what visitor numbers are. Given that there are c5000 AM branches we can assume at least 5000 daily visits will come from members. Plus, amongst those 5000 offices if there are any big success stories especially in regard to OTM valuation leads received v Zoopla surely trumpeting that would be AM’s best recruiting tool. Constantly refuting stats without stating actual figures just doesn’t wash and leads me to believe there really isn’t a lot to shout about.

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  8. Woodentop
    March 16, 2015 at 10:45

    Some new names appearing, welcome! As for the stats, no other estate agents web portal has ever achieved the level of business on start up as OTM. Very naïve to start throwing stones at this early stage, just remember that RM & Z only got to where they are, not from the public but from their customers, the estate agents who promoted them. If agents do not promote OTM, then you may have an argument…… but so many are, so there is no reason why it will not succeed, only time will tell.  As for Z, well they have never been effective outside of the home counties and we certainly are not missing their input which for many years was a big fat ZERO and I have many OTM leads in just a few weeks, so it works.

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    1. EHenderson
      March 16, 2015 at 10:53

      There is an inference here that OTM is more effective than Zoopla Woodentop.

      Is that right?

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      1. Woodentop
        March 16, 2015 at 14:13

        Correct. I have been on RM & Z, Property Finder, Fish4Homes etc etc (nearly 40 web portals) since they all started out but not today. Long before OTM came along, we ditched most of them over time as being ineffective and why? Because they have no major UK input without the marketing and promoting being done the high estate agent. Very little is achieved by search engines, as has been proved time and again by the web only portals never being able to gain headway into the industry despite all the hype they offer. Basically the public go where they are promoted to go to, as with any business. Z until a couple of years ago was unheard of in most parts of the country outside the home counties. Agents are dropping Z around the country and as the agents support is telling their clients to go to somewhere else, the writing is on the wall. Interesting all this talk doesn’t take into account agents own web sites, we for one promote our web site (as one should be) and we get more business across the board from it than any property portal has ever achieved. If RM say the stats are up, how come we aren’t’ seeing it come through? We are seeing OTM generated business but then all the agents where I am (except to 2 corporates) are OTM members.

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        1. Woodentop
          March 16, 2015 at 14:15

          Oops above should read . “…..promoting being done by the high street estate agent”.

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  9. GPL
    March 16, 2015 at 11:19

    Welcome to Hoopla/Hikemove Supporters Forum!

    Umbrellas up boys n girls… it’s raining on your Duopoly Parade.

    Fact No 1 for me… I’m taking email enquiries for viewings & valutions from OnTheMarket, easily more than Zoopla and just ahead of Rightmove.

    Fact No 2… Having spoken in detail with my clients, forgive me but it is their views that count not yours!… OTM is a big hit for clarity, ease of use and gives them property without the distraction. I know that’s disappointing for you to hear as you rely on your hits n stats… but there you go!

    Fact 3… Every single UK Estate Agent that uses Zoopla as their No2 portal could in my view drop them today and see no negative impact on their business… and frankly it looks to me as if many would see an uplift!

    Fact No 4… OnTheMarket are here to stay!… Zoopla have proved they are not a worthy No2 Portal so move over… the savings and income from better leads are allowing me to invest in more local marketing which in turn is attracting more business.

    Fact No 5… Our business is well up for the same period last year and although this is not down to OTM it clearly has had a positive impact in provision of portal advertising for our business.

    Fact No 6…. Roll up all your Duopoly stats, traffic and hits boys n girls as they offer a 1 Dimensional method of justifying your portals success, however in the real world I see a different picture… of course I am an Estate Agent working in my industry and not a leech sucking off it!

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    1. danny
      March 16, 2015 at 13:53

      GPL , you go on about how leaving Zoopla doesn’t affect your business your starting to sound like that guy who tells everyone in the pub that he right to have the affair and leave his missus best thing he’s ever done , then goes home, puts on some candles , plays her favorite album whilst spraying her perfume in the air gently sobbing into the dressing gown that she left. If life’s so good , let me waste my money on it …. Banging on about it so much I’m not sure who your trying to convince … Me….or you ?

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      1. EHenderson
        March 16, 2015 at 13:59

        Suggesting that you get  more leads from Rightmove and Zoopla is a joke.

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        1. EHenderson
          March 16, 2015 at 14:00

          Sorry, premature post! Suggesting that you get more leads from OTM than from RM & Z is a joke.

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          1. Woodentop
            March 16, 2015 at 14:18

            UI get more from my own web site.

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        2. GPL
          March 17, 2015 at 07:03

          EHenderson… You describing yourself as premature and a joke!

          That’s refreshingly honest you should take up with Danny, he lacks confidence as well.

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      2. danny
        March 16, 2015 at 14:02

        P.S writing “fact” in front on something doesnt make it a fact …fact . Especially when you say Fact no.4 Every agent in the UK could drop Zoopla as their no.2 portal IN MY OPINION … this makes it an opinion … not a fact ,and you know what they say about opinions and a*r*holes , everyones got one

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      3. GPL
        March 17, 2015 at 06:59

        Danny… I’ll focus on your one interesting point…

        Dressing Gown?

        Really?

        You struck me as a Onesie kinda person…. sitting there singing your song into your empty glass in your lonely room & kitchen, watching re runs of The Sweeney.

        If you read the heading of this story, you’ll see it involves your employer, Zoopla… but that’s why you are responding of course… certainly not because you are a successful estate agent… there’s a Fact to add.

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  10. Paul H
    March 16, 2015 at 11:25

    This quest for lead data from some quarters is now really getting quite tedious. Did people really think that agents would expect the phone to be off the hook after only 6 weeks, of course not. So this leads the question that if OTM agents were being affected by being OTM then why not the mass exodus back to Zoopla?

    The answer is simple, theyre not being affected because they have now realised that they only needed to be on one portal. One clear example is the amount of leads I now receive from OTM/RM compared to when I was on Z/RM…..THE AMOUNT OF LEADS ARE THE SAME IN FACT POSSIBLY MORE NOW.

    I completely understand that many agents not on Z will see the leads coming in and see Zooplas value, however it has become apparent to those on Z or RM that the buyers and tenants are the same but just using both sites.

    On that basis if the lead levels are the same and agents are not losing business then why stay with RM/Z when you can trade just the same by jumping on board OTM by being on OTM/and AN other and take the long term view for you and your clients?!

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    1. Harree
      March 16, 2015 at 11:45

      Paul H – you and others keep banging on that EA’s don’t need RM and Z. Wrong. Speak for yourself. Over 30% of my viewing requests, STC’s and completions this year have come from Z. It is a total fallacy that all Z users visit RM as well so “you only need RM”. As I said in a previous post – if OTM is already producing great results for EA’s why aren’t AM highlighting these agents and using it to recruit more agents?

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      1. Paul H
        March 16, 2015 at 11:52

        “Over 30% of my viewing requests, STC’s and completions this year have come from Z.”….As i’ve said I completely understand your view as you see the leads coming in from Zoopla and probably say to yourself that these are leads that I would be missing out on if I was OTM, i’m telling you that this is not the case because I and thousands of other agents have been able to trade perfectly well without being on Zoopla, the lead levels are the same and in fact a quick check on my pipe line tells me i’m in a better position then I was this time last year during the open day/sealed bid frenzy of Q1 2014.

         

        “As I said in a previous post – if OTM is already producing great results for EA’s why aren’t AM highlighting these agents and using it to recruit more agents?”….The fact that OTM agent numbers are going up and there is no mass exodus clearly shows you that they are getting results from the OTM/RM or Z combo.

         

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        1. Harree
          March 16, 2015 at 12:09

          “I and thousands of other agents have been able to trade perfectly well without being on Zoopla, the lead levels are the same”   Really?? You are effectively saying that OTM generates the same amount of traffic as Z. And that is nonsense.

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          1. Paul H
            March 16, 2015 at 12:17

            Your just not understanding what I have said have you. I said I am now getting the same level of leads, if not more from my RM/OTM combo as I was from RM/Z. I did not say how many come from RM and how many from OTM did I.

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            1. Harree
              March 16, 2015 at 12:21

              I think you say whatever is necessary to support your AM position.

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              1. Paul H
                March 16, 2015 at 12:36

                If that was the case and my business was being affected then why do I simply not go running back to Zoopla? Surely it would make more sense for me to give up the £3600 i’ve loaned the business if I even lose only one instruction/sale?

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                1. Property Pundit
                  March 16, 2015 at 16:30

                  I thought we had already established that Harree is NOT an estate agent.

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  11. Digital Expert
    March 16, 2015 at 11:47

    Interesting that those agents who say they’ve had the eureka moment of only needing one portal are all on two portals.

     

     

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    1. Paul H
      March 16, 2015 at 12:09

      I’m now giving my money to an agent owned portal as opposed to a share holder owned portal, what is your point exactly?

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      1. Digital Expert
        March 16, 2015 at 14:37

        Not sure my point needs simplifying, but OK, I’ll try to make it a bit easier to understand:

        You say need 1 portal but are on 2 portal. Me no understand statement.

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        1. Paul H
          March 16, 2015 at 14:56

          “You say need 1 portal but are on 2 portal. Me no understand statement.”…What is there not to understand?! I only need Rightmove as opposed to Rightmove and Zoopla, but I choose to give my money and listings to OTM instead of Zoopla. The leads that I would have other wise received from Zoopla now come in from OTM and Rightmove although (currently) mainly through Rightmove, I appreciate that this may be different for others. But I see this changing as OTM grows.

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          1. Digital Expert
            March 16, 2015 at 15:04

            So you are still on two portals?

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          2. Digital Expert
            March 16, 2015 at 15:05

            Look, I’m not trying to be aggressive. But you aren’t making any sense.

            You say you only need one portal, yet are on two. So I ask you why you’re on two portals and you go on to explain that you only need one because you get the right mix of leads from two.

            I’m confused.

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            1. Paul H
              March 16, 2015 at 15:13

              So is your suggestion that I should only be on Rightmove and not OTM or Zoopla? If you cannot understand that I choose to be on RM and OTM so as to back an agent owned portal then your just being silly.

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              1. Property Pundit
                March 16, 2015 at 16:33

                We know DE is neither an agent or businessman. This should make understanding his posts a bit easier.

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                1. Digital Expert
                  March 16, 2015 at 17:19

                  Neither an agent or a businessman?

                  No, I’m just here for the fun. I’ve made some very good friends here and I’ve enjoyed getting to know many of your families.

                  It would take a special kind of masochist to come here without being involved in the industry. Give me a break!

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                  1. Digital Expert
                    March 16, 2015 at 17:20

                    Blocked out the word ‘m a s o c h i s t’.

                    Haha!

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    2. wilko
      March 16, 2015 at 12:42

      Digital…….you seriously need to change your name as NO REAL  digital expert would expect a website to do the same as a Nationwide top 10 site in 7 weeks!!!!

      Really, come on, it’s not too difficult to understand the plan by now. Staggers me how some on this forum still don’t understand the proposed plans of OTM users…..it’s been said 100’s of times now!

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      1. Digital Expert
        March 16, 2015 at 14:33

        So you are still on two portals?

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        1. wilko
          March 16, 2015 at 15:16

          Yes, as it would have been commercial suicide to not remain on a well known property advertising portal until such a time as a potential replacement is available.

          At the moment you wont find many OTM members who expected OTM to be in a position to challenge a uk top 10 site in 7 weeks from launch.

          “Most intelligent people don’t hand their notice in until they have another job to go to!”

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          1. Digital Expert
            March 16, 2015 at 16:12

            You’ve just described Zoopla, Wilko.

             

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            1. wilko
              March 16, 2015 at 17:19

              Sorry, you make absolutely no sense to me (and other property professionals it would seem)!

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              1. Digital Expert
                March 16, 2015 at 17:26

                Ok, let’s have another go:

                OTM ultimate aim is to hurt RM, to topple it as number one. As is Z’s.

                Many, many agents with whom I discuss (in person, professionally) the marketplace have been waiting to drop RM because of £+ and unchallenged dominance. What they have been waiting for is an alternative, a viable one the public know about & use and therefore diminishing risk of lack of exposure – that is Zoopla. (“Yes, as it would have been commercial suicide to not remain on a well known property advertising portal until such a time as a potential replacement is available”)

                Z’s been investing for years and reached this point (“At the moment you wont find many OTM members who expected OTM to be in a position to challenge a uk top 10 site in 7 weeks from launch.”)

                The national brand, Zoopla (“Most intelligent people don’t hand their notice in until they have another job to go to!”).

                It was there for you – you could all have left RM, everyone already knows about Z you could really have affected the market place. Instead, it’s back to square one to a startup website which 7 weeks after launch still hasn’t got up to launch target members, Ad £ all spent and no visitors.

                Well played – that showed ’em!

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                1. Paul H
                  March 16, 2015 at 18:09

                  To digital Expert, why on earth do you keep posting about this topic when you prove time and time again that you havn’t got a clue of what your talking about. Zoopla is now a PLC with share holders to adhere to, they have already said that they want to raise fees inline with Rightmove. All you do with each and everyone of your posts is show your complete lack of understanding of this issue as well asyour complete disdain that you have for agents, why not go and post on a tech website.

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                  1. Digital Expert
                    March 16, 2015 at 18:18

                    Paul, not agreeing with you and perpetuating a lie that OTM is good for agents and their customers is not the same as not knowing what I’m talking about.

                    I have no disdain for agents, they are my customers and bread and butter.

                    I have disdain for those that refuse to consider facts rather than opinions. I call people out, they can’t answer with facts.

                    When OTM come out publically with their figures we can then discuss reality.

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  12. the message
    March 16, 2015 at 12:27

    I’m back – I deliberately didn’t post for a few weeks to let the dust settle and to actually see how things were playing out.

     

    Now for those of you who haven’t followed my legendary posts to date (one of which had 14 likes I believe – proudest day of my life)

    I am a regional branch manager – work for an owner who is a “wise old owl”

    We didnt join OTM day 1 for a couple of reasons: –

    we were worried about it really being a central London high end play, masquerading as a national play

    We felt the OTM team were brilliant at general marketing but we didnt understand the digital strategy (note here I have a digital marketing background – a failed startup – and feel i know it all!)

    It was way too expensive for a start up, we would have been paying almost the same as we did for Zoopla, for a fraction of the value

    My boss felt we could make hay for the first 6 months winning more instructions. If we were wrong and OTM was successful, we would jump, if not we would have saved money and hurt our competition.

    Classic prisoners dilemma, we were looking after ourselves nd not the greater good

     

    So whats happened – loads of smoke and mirrors and noise, Zoopla being hurt and Rightmove share price hitting an all time high. Noone leaving Rightmove

    OTM launching a big national TV campaign but without a national product (in 80% of the areas they didnt have enough inventory to want to drive traffic)

    Us winning a few extra instructions by rubbishing our competition

    OT advertising in CountryLife (our biggest fear coming true…..all members vote for this)

    OT marketing being really good, as a long term brand builder, but the hitwise stats saying that the site is still relatively unknown. No suprise there, and I think the traffic stats are great for a start up, but not for one charging 300 a month.

    The anger and aggression on this site has died down a touch, I feel many people are now entrenched and we will see how the next 6 months go. If we are wrong we will join the OTM express, if we are right we will carry on stealing the business off those on OTM, who are paying money for a service that (isnt yet at least) worth the money they are paying, and risks losing them business.

     

    Still great fun, and as for me who tries to do the best job he can but isnt an owner, its brightened up my day!!!

     

     

    So in summary, we are very happy with our position.

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    1. Robert May
      March 16, 2015 at 12:54

      Legendary?,  was that when you called two other contributors (woodentop and Paul H) brutally digital neanderthals?

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  13. the message
    March 16, 2015 at 13:27

    I think I was throwing mud around at all and sundry, especially anyone who tried to stifle debate on either side. Paul H and Woodentop did get a lot of my ire I must admit.

     

    And even now we still see these comedy lines, in this thread

     

    GPL – Fact No 1 for me… I’m taking email enquiries for viewings & valutions from OnTheMarket, easily more than Zoopla and just ahead of Rightmove. – I mean come on. OTM is providing more leads to you than Rightmove………do me a favour GPL you prune, if you want to have a proper debate then speak some sense

     

    or this from my old mucker Woodentop…

    As for Z, well they have never been effective outside of the home counties and we certainly are not missing their input which for many years was a big fat ZERO and I have many OTM leads in just a few weeks, so it works.

    So basically I stayed on Z for years but they were rubbish, and in a few short weeks OTM are much better. WOODENTOP YOU MUG, why did you stay on Z if they were rubbish, how much money have you wasted!!!!!! I would love to be based right next door to you and put you out of business.

     

    At the end of the day I have total respect for the many agents who have gone on OTM and are prepared to accept a short term hit to their business by doing so. A brave call and maybe a lucrative one. I have zero respect for the eejits who either work for OTM, or are so divorced from reality they peddle tosh.

    I fear most independent agents have been had by Mr Springnet and his bevvy of high end agents who are building a primelocation mark II on the back of fees paid by agents in Hull, Halifax and Harlesden, but hey, what do I know!

     

    Good luck all, I might be back!

     

    x

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    1. Woodentop
      March 16, 2015 at 14:31

      Is it necessary to be  abusive because they have a differing view to you. We ditched Z long before OTM came along and it was free then, so I wasn’t that big a mug after all and not many agents have ever been on Z outside of the home counties, a fact.

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      1. Harree
        March 16, 2015 at 14:36

        Woodentop   “not many agents have ever been on Z outside of the home counties, a fact.”  Of course it’s not a fact. Where on earth do you get that ridiculous assumption from??

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        1. wilko
          March 16, 2015 at 15:11

          I don’t agree with woodentop that not many agents have been on z outside the home counties but would make the observation that OTM s hardest sell will be to those that are/were only ever on RM or who have dropped z post otm (due to z stock levels and no tv advertising) and are now happy with just RM. Ive come across lots and lots of these agents and they, on the whole, would join otm (with a view to rivalling RM eventually)…..but only when it has been advertised for a while and is better known. They are happy to watch other agents pay to get it in the meantime but ultimately they want the £250 per month fee and so may come on bard at a later date when more traffic is evident.

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        2. Woodentop
          March 16, 2015 at 15:56

          How many high street estate agents are on Z!

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          1. Harree
            March 16, 2015 at 17:11

            How many high street estate agents are on Z!   1000s

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            1. Woodentop
              March 17, 2015 at 12:55

              And how many 1000’s are we talking outside of the home counties and of those that are, what percentage is that to the number of agents around the UK who are not ? You must know to make your assertion?

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      2. the message
        March 16, 2015 at 18:39

        Oh come on Woodentop my old china. Really, you have to stay on script “we ditched Z long ago when they were free”……hahahah, so all of this “more leads from OTM than Z is a load of old tosh, you must have dropped Z in 2009!!!! Now that might have been a great call and saved you a fortune, but I do think you have been a touch disingenuous in some of your statements over the last few months if this is the case!!! – We all believed you had made the tough decision to dump Z and go on OTM! you old fraudster you!!

        And Z has noone out of home counties. Again, I dont need to fight their position but thats just not true, and it really makes you look desperate to peddle such filth.

        Tell it as it is. Its either:

        a – I am a small agent who loves being a keyboard warrior. I have only been on R for the last few years, hate the way they charge me and dont listen to me and am desperate for someone to usurp them, so I have gone on OTM. Its costing me a packet but I will stick in there and hope Ian S makes my dreams come true. or

        b – I work for OTM and am desperately hoping I wont get the boot from this amazing gravy train we are on. Get paid a packet for pretty much nowt. Every other start up I tried to join offered me a v small salary but loads of stock options, here they just offer big wedges of cash, way more than I earned at R!!!

        delete as appropriate!

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        1. Woodentop
          March 17, 2015 at 13:02

          The message: My reply you immature remarks is this. We were on RM & Z from  the very start-up. Yes we ditched Z but it was back in 2012. As for my credentials I can only offer you this, not only have I have an estate agent for decades I also lecture on business economics and corporate law ( continuation from my past employment). I do not work for OTM but have a very good agency which is very successful and that is what matters to me.

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    2. Property Pundit
      March 16, 2015 at 16:36

      ‘but hey, what do I know!’ Where do I start?

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      1. the message
        March 16, 2015 at 18:53

        one member one vote…so how many members voted to spend tens of thousands advertising OTM in countrylife? Or setting up the Head office in Central london, or having a board full of High end london agents< or running major campaigns in the Torygraph. Springnut worked in this industry about 8 years ago (has he worked since) for a high end portal backed by agents. He is doing the same but this time funded by agents from all over. As I say, thats our view and why we are out. I will believe otherwise when its genuinely a mutual, or when we have some board members who understand digital marketing, and how an agent in a non london city needs to operate. Good luck to you PP, and you are right, I know nothing, thats why I am prepared to sk loads of questions and find things out, and what we are finding out here stinks.

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  14. Paul H
    March 16, 2015 at 15:10

    From EYE 29th January…..”OTM agents finding creative ways to get round one other portal rule’ claims Zoopla”….

    Are there?The frustration now being shown by some of the anti OTM brigade is becoming more and more apparent, as they simply cannot understand nor it appears believe that agents are not wanting to go back. Do they not realise that agents will be assessing all leads received, all sales done, all vals carried out and realising that they are not losing business? If not why not use an creative way to get around the one other portal rule?

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  15. Consumer Perspective
    March 16, 2015 at 19:37

    My other half is an independent estate agent and happily advertises on Z/PL/RM. She is the market leader in Sales and Lettings in a town of 32 agents. She is the sole reason I have come to know about this forum and tells me that there is a mixture of opinions – some she shares, some she seriously worries about. Given that very few of you use your real names let alone say where you work it seems appropriate for me to follow suit. As a member of the public who is not always moving but who is always aware of what’s “available” I find all that I need on Z/PL or RM. If a property or agent is not on one of these big guns then it’s on the other and mostly both anyway. Ardent searchers will use both. I’ve had a nose at OTM and much as it’s clean and tidy, it actually comes across to me like it’s empty and bereft of the most useful independent house-moving information, not to mention stock. Like it’s not close to being ready yet or useful because hardly any agents or properties are on it, sending you back to one of the other 2! I like the fact you can link to an agent website but then I couldn’t imagine staying on this site for long enough to send a lead otherwise.

    Anyway, my main beef for her is that Agents have “clubbed together” to take on this duopoly and have enforced a restrictive clause regarding where its members can advertise. Any agents (certainly among the 10% of all agents who vent on here taken from the perhaps 15-20% of all agents who’ve joined OTM) who have decided to drop Z/PL have basically given RM the easiest route to the next bout of Price Rises as they’ve possibly got stronger in your collective attempt to make Z/PL weaker; this last observation of course only in hindsight because the OTM leader said he wanted to upset the duopolous apple-cart and had absolutely no idea pre-launch as to what strategy would be deployed by his members; so, now that agents have decided they can take on RM together  (really???) having tried to damage Zoopla (really???) we watch on at the premature revelry. It’s tantamount to denial, as referred to by some refreshing chap called Danny, and much as time will tell, it will be the ruing of days in accepting RMs confusing pricing menu. At least staying on both gives over 80% of agents the chance to negotiate terms with both the portals and be in the real mix with Sellers/Landlords . Any one left on OTM by year end will take whatever they can get I suspect.

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    1. Ric
      March 17, 2015 at 16:49

      Ha ha, love this post. Good job.

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  16. insideviewer
    March 18, 2015 at 09:59

    Would it be too much to suggest that everyone can save time and trouble by using my ‘preliminary viewer’ tool at http://dld.bz/showhome ?

    I hope I haven’t broken any rules here, it just seems pertinent to point to a market level asset.

    Report
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